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Who's better Genesis w/ Peter Gabriel or Phil Collins


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In reply to an earlier post on Feb 13, 2012 7:37:45 PM PST
You don't still listen to bands that broke up a long time ago? Try going to the Beatles forum and telling them that. To fans, it matters.

Posted on Feb 13, 2012 7:43:33 PM PST
@venussansfurs: I know, wtf?! They broke up, so they don't matter? It's not only Beatles fans who are out of luck but fans of 98% of all the music that was ever made! LOL

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 13, 2012 7:53:43 PM PST
Heck, if I didn't listen to bands that have broken up I could wipe out about 90% of my music collection! Haha.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 13, 2012 8:17:23 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 13, 2012 8:19:40 PM PST
Music Luver says:
I didn't say not listen. The question was which is better. My response to THAT is like I said before. Good until after Then there were three. Then they became a boring crappy pop group.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 13, 2012 9:12:55 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 13, 2012 9:23:47 PM PST
Well, you asked does it matter, since they have broken up? And I answered yes, to fans of theirs, it matters. But I think, in a nutshell, it boils down to this: if you like Pop music, you probably like Genesis with Collins. If you like Prog, you like them with Gabriel. There are of course grey areas, like the post-Gabriel years with Hackett, which we've discussed. 'Three' for me, was the beginning of the end for them.

Posted on Feb 13, 2012 9:21:22 PM PST
There are plenty of reasons as to why a band's early material remains their best. The creativity and passionate drive was there. That gets diluted over time. I do enjoy the early Phil Collins Genesis but for me it's...Peter Gabriel Genesis by a long shot.

Posted on Feb 13, 2012 9:30:56 PM PST
#1 Beatle Snob says:
Bon Scott, DLR, Ozzy
--------------------------

Agreed. "Dio" for "Rainbow" though.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 13, 2012 9:33:26 PM PST
Music Luver says:
i agree totally venus.

Posted on Feb 13, 2012 9:37:53 PM PST
@venussansfurs: ironically--and I've said this before--I think the 70s version of the band was also better at pop than the 80s version. I'll take "I Know What I Like", "The Carpet Crawlers" and "Afterglow" over "Man On The Corner" or "Invisible Touch" any day of the week. I like lots of pop music, and I don't like most 80s Genesis!!

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 13, 2012 9:52:49 PM PST
Way better with Peter Gabriel--No Brainer!!!

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 13, 2012 10:07:46 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 13, 2012 11:18:51 PM PST
I thoroughly agree with you Michael, and here's why: because those earlier songs you mentioned, though more accessible than some of their Prog work, are still artistically creative and are not specifically aimed at the Top 40 audience, like the later singles were. I can't even think of an 80s Genesis single I liked, especially after they added all those horns, yuk!

Posted on Feb 13, 2012 10:25:06 PM PST
@venussansfurs: "That's All" is the one 80s single I like. I don't know why, I just do (the absence of horns and the return of the organ helps). The rest...oh boy. I really don't think it's a matter of pop vs. prog, so much as the 70s version was just--as you say--more artistically creative. Not pandering to the lowest common denominator. The band always claimed they remained true to themselves even during the "Invisible Touch" era, but I just don't buy it!

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 13, 2012 10:33:25 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 13, 2012 10:47:26 PM PST
"Carpet Crawlers" in particular, I think is a brilliant song, and I think Gabriel wrote most of it (except for maybe the intro), it sounds a lot like his solo material; he even re-made it in the 90s (don't get me started on those remakes of his, we've discussed that before!). But I'll tell you what, even some of Collins' solo material, like "I Don't Care Anymore", "Take Me Home" and "In the Air Tonight" I think are better than that Pop stuff he did with Genesis. At least those songs are a bit more artistically oriented, so I agree, Pop doesn't have to be pablum, as long as it's still creative it has merit.

Posted on Feb 13, 2012 10:56:49 PM PST
@venussansfurs: we're right on the same page in this case. "I Don't Care Anymore" and "In The Air Tonight" are definitely more substantial than his concurrent work with the band. But let's not discuss his cover of "You Can't Hurry Love"...and then of course there's "Sussudio"...

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 13, 2012 11:09:31 PM PST
Ohhhhh nooooo, you had to remind me of "Sussudio". I don't even think Phil fans can abide that song. And "Against All Odds" too while we're mentioning the stinkers...far too sappy for my tastes. ;o)

Posted on Feb 14, 2012 7:35:05 AM PST
B-Jak says:
venus- "Carpet Crawlers" is probably my favorite genesis song. A surreal masterpiece of tension and release, and that haunting Hackett guitar line. Gets me every time.

Posted on Feb 14, 2012 7:47:24 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 14, 2012 9:45:35 AM PST
mac says:
I've been listening to "Here Comes The Supernatural Anaesthetist" over and over again lately. A great pop riff to some nice instrumental progressions and then it gets all spacey and such. "Carpet Crawlers" is truly brilliant and the title track is so majestic and showy!

The post Gabriel Genesis had some beautiful melodies and some very memorable songs, but the original magic of the band waned.

p.s. I'd love to hear Skrillex do "Back In N.Y.C."

Posted on Feb 14, 2012 7:50:43 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 14, 2012 10:08:07 AM PST
vivazappa says:
As far as the post Hackett records...my order of favorites...
1-And Then There Were Three
2-Duke
3-Mama
4-Abacab
5-Three Sides Live
6-The 2nd Box Set
7-Live (Longs)
8-Live (Shorts)
9-The one with No Son of Mine on it...
10-The 1st Box Set
11-Invisable Touch...Domino ONLY!
12-Calling All Stations (why?)

Geez...they had 12 post Hackett records???

Posted on Feb 14, 2012 8:19:48 AM PST
Walt says:
Not even close. Peter Gabriel!

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 14, 2012 9:41:34 AM PST
Yes, Hackett's guitar just soars on that song. It's my fave song by them too. They are one of the few bands (and I'm referring to the Gabriel years here) that got better and better with each release. The earlier albums are a bit spotty, as someone said previously, but by 'Foxtrot' they had mastered their sound and on 'Selling...' they perfected it. 'Lamb' of course, was the pinnacle, and a fitting last release for them with Gabriel.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 14, 2012 9:50:52 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 14, 2012 10:03:53 AM PST
I do know that Gabriel had more of a hand in the composition of the 'Lamb' album than the previous ones, and maybe that was a contributing factor in his departure, plus the fact that he was having some family issues at the time. I've read that the others preferred writing as a cohesive unit. I'm guessing that he probably wrote a lot of the title track as well as the main melody to "Carpet Crawlers", since he performed the "Lamb" song solo as well.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 14, 2012 9:59:30 AM PST
Yeah, and you know what's really sad is that those post-Hackett albums outsold the previous ones by a mile!

Posted on Feb 14, 2012 10:56:05 AM PST
@venussansfurs: apparently, until "Calling All Stations", Genesis were the only band in rock history to always sell more copies of each studio album than the last one. They just grew and grew and grew. Artistically, I agree that each album from the debut through "The Lamb" outstripped the last--and "Trick", as I mentioned, I think outstrips the albums before it in certain ways, although it is a slight step down in other ways as we discussed. After that, though, it was all downhill more or less. Whereas their sales trajectory was like a continuous steady upward line, their artistic trajectory IMO perfectly resembles an upside-down "V".

Over in the prog forum in a recent discussion I think it has been determined that Gabriel wrote the music to three of the songs on "The Lamb", those being "Counting Out Time", most of "Carpet Crawlers" and "The Chamber Of 32 Doors" (these last two being truly incredible, of course). It's interesting how those three are all in row on the album, and along with the vocal-heavy "Back In NYC" makes side two of the album, to me, sound like a preview of his solo career. As for the lyrics, he wrote 95%, basically everything except most of "The Light Dies Down On Broadway" which was primarily Banks. I think it was a good idea for the group to give him full lyrical/concept reign on the album, because he *was* the best songwriter. They should have simply let him continue to do that from that point on, for as wonderful as I think "Trick" is, if Gabriel had stayed the next album with him could have been even better than "The Lamb"--perhaps a full realization of the "Mozo" concept that appeared in bits on his first few solo records?

Posted on Feb 14, 2012 11:16:55 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 14, 2012 11:38:46 AM PST
<It's interesting how those three are all in row on the album, and along with the vocal-heavy "Back In NYC" makes side two of the album, to me, sound like a preview of his solo career.>

You're right on there...it does sound like a precursor to Gabriel's solo career, much more so than the previous releases. In fact, the first Gabriel solo album to me is distinctly reminiscent of a lot of 'Lamb' in many regards. I can only imagine what 'Trick' might have sounded like had Gabriel continued with them, for me it would have been that much better had he been able to contribute to it. But as it stands, his first solo release is a knockout, it's my fave of his solo albums and shows that he truly was an amazing songwriter in his own right. The diversity on that album is brilliant. I agree, he was their best songwriter, and it's great that he was truly able to shine in that regard once he was on his own.

Posted on Feb 14, 2012 11:36:44 AM PST
I like the prog- Genesis of course. When Phil played some awesome drums and sang backup vocals.
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Discussion in:  Music forum
Participants:  40
Total posts:  85
Initial post:  Jul 30, 2011
Latest post:  May 26, 2013

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