Customer Discussions > Music forum

"Elvis and the Beatles stole from black music."


Sort: Oldest first | Newest first
Showing 151-175 of 558 posts in this discussion
In reply to an earlier post on Sep 14, 2011 8:53:03 PM PDT
I did miss the blues.

Posted on Sep 14, 2011 9:31:47 PM PDT
Gino says:
Maclen, not the whole Walrus, but the "I'm crying". Or, perhaps you're not dinosaur enough to remember Smokey's Ooh ooh Baby, Baby, where he ends the verse w/"I'm cryin". And I still steal
hubcaps, too.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 14, 2011 11:21:46 PM PDT
Hinch says:
>Ironically the song was originally Shake it up Baby by the Top Notes<

I always thought the Isleys wrote Twist and Shout, or were the first to record it.
Just goes to show.
Not even I know everything. lol!

:-)

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 14, 2011 11:26:32 PM PDT
Hinch says:
Good list of suggestions!!

I would also ask the question, who is forcing whites to copy or make rap?

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 15, 2011 2:09:48 AM PDT
W. Robinson says:
Simon J. Binks, Does "everything els" include opera ?

Posted on Sep 15, 2011 4:09:28 AM PDT
J. Hand says:
I sure wouldn't use the word "stolen" in relation to the music itself. "Stolen" does apply to the royalties, sales profits, and the other money that the blues artists never received by hook or crook. It applies to publishing rights that were signed away and to outright theft of words and music. All that seems to seldom come up whenever there is a discussion on this subject. I do remember that when I got into the Blues many years ago I was surprised at how many guitar riffs, lead solos, and overall playing styles were done by the aforementioned blues artists first. I never thought of any of it as stolen.

The truth is that in the US the blues were virtually unknown and/or ignored by White audiences for a number of reasons. British music fans, on the other hand, were enamored by the blues and a lot of the British bands initially were blues bands who did blues covers. British bands never made any secret of the influence the blues had on them or their music. The blues artists who did the original versions of covers were always credited on the records. There was seldom an interview conducted where the same deference to the blues artists wasn't shown. Whenever possible the Brit bands went out of their way to meet the people who had such an influence on their sound. Hardly seems like stealing to me.

Another point I don't think it's fair to accuse those bands of "stealing" anything was that it wasn't their fault that Americans were so woefully ignorant of a musical style that was created here and neither supported or promoted it. Let me clarify again that I know there were a many factors that kept the blues from becoming mainstream, especially racism, racism, and racism. If anything, it was the British, some other European bands, and a few American bands -most notably Canned Heat- who re-introduced, and in many cases introduced for the first time, many Americans to the blues. It was those bands who brought about a blues revival, got the blues artists the honor and recognition they had always deserved, and put money in their pockets, something else that was long deserved. It sure wasn't the American music buying public that spontaneously became aware of the blues and triggered an overnight revival.

Music is art and art always influences other artists. Nobody ever says a certain sculptor stole hammer/chisel techniques from another sculptor or than one painter stole use of colors or specific brush strokes from another. I certainly wouldn't call "influence" "theft" of vise-versa. Even going back to the late 40s and 50s, and in some cases even earlier, I believe if it wasn't for racism and the uneven musical playing field, that some artists like Elvis would not have achieved the same level of success or popularity had they had to openly compete with those they so often imitated.

The one thing that remains constant in this argument is that many people who state it as valid seem to have limited knowledge of music itself and even less of the styles and traditions from which it came and evolved. There's nothing wrong with that and one certainly doesn't need to be a music historian to enjoy music. Still, it seems common sense to have at least a fundamental understanding of the issues one is supporting or countering.

It was ages ago so I don't recall all the exact details, but I saw a presentation in the early/mid 1980s on the music with some interesting highlights. At one point, the presenter launched into what was obviously a boogie-woogie based riff. After a bit he stopped and then told the audience that particular piece had been written some 500, yes- five hundred- years previous!

I'd rather find fascination in a style of music that was created here, existed here, and left here to be appreciated in another land and then returned here to be "discovered" by the same people who seldom knew it existed in their own backyard to start with. And it took that long journey to get to its rightful place in our musical history. It may have been a lot of things, but stolen sure isn't one of them.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 15, 2011 8:00:11 AM PDT
I think you missed the whole point of that joke! HAHA

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 15, 2011 3:30:14 PM PDT
JO

I own just about every Carlin recording, a joke doesn't always work for everybody.

Posted on Sep 15, 2011 3:41:52 PM PDT
I would say the music was stolen, more influnaced, everyone does, it's more like a tree, that has roots, that branchs out, there. Most, of UK, groups were influance, by that, witch is cool. You can hear, that most artist, everywhere. Most of my taste, what moves me, comes from that.

Posted on Sep 15, 2011 3:49:25 PM PDT
Many of the 60s English acoustic players (Graham, Carthy, Jansch, Renbourn) went wild over fingerpicking because of Big Bill Broonzy touring. Their styles were heavily influenced by him. But none of them do much blues related stuff. Did they 'steal'. Of course not. Stealing is what Led Zeppelin did.

Posted on Sep 15, 2011 6:17:27 PM PDT
Influenced is a better description than stole . And we can all be grateful they were.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 15, 2011 6:20:49 PM PDT
My Thoughts exactly .

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 15, 2011 6:28:50 PM PDT
Antinomus says:
@ Mok RE: he listens to Styx
Actually, according to his profile, mistercd103 ordered a Styx DVD and *complained* when they sent him The Moody Blues instead. I cannot comprehend this reaction. It's like complaining because you bought a bus ticket and they sent you a Lear jet by mistake.
------------
Hey, Gino!
------------

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 15, 2011 6:45:35 PM PDT
I think music and art thrive because of community. Many people were touched by blues, jazz, gospel and felt connection to that music and took it to their musical community scene etc.

Nothing wrong with that ... it motivates many to seek out their influences. The one sad part is many of the artists who influenced others rarely got fame, money and many are unknown by most people.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 15, 2011 6:56:07 PM PDT
Seven

True enough. But many of the old acoustic blues guys were brought out obscurity during the great folk scare to great acclaim (and more money than they'd ever had) but it took a great toll on them. The 'finders' have often regretted that they did that.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 15, 2011 7:09:07 PM PDT
Mistercd103 says:
Bite it ...... I already had tthe Moodies disc. Get a life

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 15, 2011 8:46:01 PM PDT
Antinomus says:
Of course you already had it. Your review said you ordered the item 3 more times, hoping to get a different result. I remember Einstein having something to say about that kind of logic.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 15, 2011 8:51:13 PM PDT
Hendrix was inspired by Terry Kath? I had no idea.

Posted on Sep 16, 2011 12:59:33 AM PDT
Good point stealing is what Led Zeppelin to various blues songs most nobably a blind lemon jefferson song...but i call it regergatated...the stones, beatles, kinks, the who, whoever else listened to the blues or black music then gave back their version of what they heard...obviously it wasn't the same exact sounds...and that's what music is all about...listening to the old and coming up with new music...nothing is 100% made up...although alot of beatles songs are very different than what stood before but still it all comes from somewhere and you can hear where it came from in different stages...i can't tell you where Revolver came from...sgt pepper was their version or pet sounds...that's what's missing today friendly competition among bands...now it seems the focus is on performing live if they can, in this economy alot of bands have to sit home or do less touring than they'd like to.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 16, 2011 1:08:24 AM PDT
Hinch says:
That is interesting!

I would not have believed it, but read this.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110114053448AAW8Ek0

Posted on Sep 16, 2011 1:24:44 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 16, 2011 1:25:25 AM PDT
M. Flikweert says:
yeah they are just a bunch of crooks, stealing sounds.

Posted on Sep 16, 2011 1:51:11 AM PDT
Honestly, people. The Beatles were the world's first boy band. Bowl haircuts, ridiculous suits and stupid songs like Yellow Submarine. They didn't dance like the Backstreet Boys, but they might as well have. But from the way Beatles fans talk about them, you'd think they invented rock'n'roll.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 16, 2011 3:35:44 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 16, 2011 4:05:24 AM PDT
J. Hand says:
Maybe so at first, but unless you lived somewhere that there was a music scene or knew people who were into the early garage bands, you really didn't have much exposure to anything. It's hard to look at their early pictures and remember how older (at the time) people derided them for having "long" hair. Even the pop stuff they played was called noise. I remember people saying things like "All that music is is yeah, yeah, yeah." They do seem trite by today's common sights in rock from Flea appearing in his underwear to what's her name peeing in her pants during a performance. You have to frame things like that in the time that they happened. Look at the compromises many bands had to make just to appear on TV. And the suits- flip through a selection of albums by bands from that era and almost every one of them wore suits and/or dressed alike.

As for the Beatles music, I really didn't start paying much attention to them until Rubber Soul and Revolver, Magical Mystery Tour, Sgt. Pepper, etc. They did take music in some directions it hadn't been before. Even the Stones came out with Their Satanic Majesties Request which I liked but still doesn't seem popular with a lot of stones fans.

I'm not a super Beatles fan or anything so what I say isn't colored by some weird fan loyalty. I have always been someone who appreciated music and have enjoyed a lot of rock, jazz, and world music along with all the variations -well, maybe not all, but most of the variations those basic genres produced. I was around when the Beatles first hit here. I was around as rock went from that early stuff through the psychedelic era, through progressive rock, glam rock, space rock, into fusion jazz and other jazz. I was around for punk and ska, the first music that got the alternative label. I got into reggae, Irish pub type music, world beats, avante garde classical, psychobilly, metal, what's now called classic and some stuff I really don't know what to call it. I have complete Public Enemy, NWA, Tu Pac and other rap artist catalogs. I know those are old to a degree, but their music had a power, a real anger, and a poetic value I don't hear in many later artists of the genre. I liked Industrial like Skinny Puppy when that was a trend. There are so many other styles of music I listen to (except opera, country/country western, polka) I could go on at length and still not hit everything. I don't say all that to imply I'm some sort of musical encyclopedia but offer it to show I've acquired a fairly good perspective of music over my lifetime and that perspective has some depth to it. Even as I approach 60 I still keep adding to my substantial music collection although most music that's come out in the past decade leaves me bored and there haven't been too many releases that have come out in the past 20 years I could see myself eagerly wanting to hear again over the next 10 or 20 years.

Consider the Beatles from the era you wrote of was circa 1963 which as of 2011 was some 48 years ago. Let me rephrase what I wrote a few sentences back- what current LPs/CDs or artists from the past 5 to 10 years are people still going to be listening to and talking about almost 50 years from now? If you can think of any take it a step further and state what he/she/they did to advance or expand music?

UPDATE- forgot about Pet Sounds / Beach Boys until I saw it mentioned in another post. It was released in mid May, 1966. Magical Mystery Tour and Sgt Pepper were released in the US at the end of November 1967 and beginning of June 1967. I had to mention it to be fair. I don't really know if one influenced the other but some say the beatles were influenced by it. Personally, except for a few bits I don't see much similarity between the Beach Boys release and the Beatles releases. I wasn't much of a Beach Boys fan and except for Pet Sounds never owned any of their other releases. If they did all spring from similar creative wells, the Beatles continued on with their music changing and evolving while it seemed to me the Beach Boys stayed with what they were accustomed to doing and eventually faded with the whole Happy Days type surfer scene. I know there was a lot going on behind the scenes with both bands that likely had an effect on the music. Antwat- I didn't want to slant my opinion by appearing to intentionally ignore something as important as Pet Sounds.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 16, 2011 3:47:40 AM PDT
J. Hand says:
It said it was an urban legend that Hendrix said that about him. As several responses at the link you provided said, any number of guitarists were supposedly acknowledged by Hendrix as being better than him. I've heard a number of them as well but nobody can ever cite a source such as an interview in which it was said. I think it's like the Frank Zappa eating poop on stage legend. Supposedly, after asserting he was the grossest man in the world, an audience member or band member, depending on which version of the BS story you hear, pooped on the stage and Frank scooped it up and ate it. I have been a huge Zappa fan for much of my life and never believed it and it's one of a very few things i do find offensive.

Now, I own a couple DVDs of GG Allin live where he did poop on the stage and scoop it up with his hands, smeari it on himself, eat it, and throw it at audience members.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 16, 2011 4:02:09 AM PDT
Hinch says:
I didn't read all the posts.

I've heard the story of Zappa years ago. There's also a story about something Rod Stewart was supposed to have done onstage, but I don't believe I should repeat it here. It would probably be deleted. lol!
You may have heard it. I think it's another falsehood, but I have known people who believed it.
[Add comment]
Add your own message to the discussion
To insert a product link use the format: [[ASIN:ASIN product-title]] (What's this?)
Prompts for sign-in
 


Recent discussions in the Music forum

Discussion Replies Latest Post
The Music Of Our Lives 6887 5 minutes ago
Musical Mt. Rushmore 51 9 minutes ago
A Taste of 2014... 1154 12 minutes ago
Song Game...10 songs where.... 4961 17 minutes ago
What Are You Listening To? (Volume Three) 4088 1 hour ago
Why Pat Boone is Better than Elvis 305 5 hours ago
My Let It Bleed 10 6 hours ago
Steppenwolf 84 6 hours ago
While You are looking for something to Post in this Forum, what are you listening to??? 4602 6 hours ago
Your Favorite Song By . . . 2713 7 hours ago
Joe Cocker dies at 70 20 7 hours ago
Long Careers in Music 60 10 hours ago
 

This discussion

Discussion in:  Music forum
Participants:  161
Total posts:  558
Initial post:  Aug 17, 2011
Latest post:  Oct 29, 2014

New! Receive e-mail when new posts are made.
Tracked by 12 customers

Search Customer Discussions