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Bands Overlooked by the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame


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In reply to an earlier post on Feb 27, 2014 11:51:27 AM PST
"3. Sister Rosetta Tharpe"

YEAH!!!!!!!!

Posted on Feb 27, 2014 11:51:04 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 27, 2014 12:10:23 PM PST
The Sympathy vote is indeed a very big deal as Donna Summer (the queen of rock?) dies so they stuck her in there. Lou Reed, isn't alive now so they will find a place in the new wing that doesn't face Lake Erie they are planing to construct in 2023.

Al Kooper, is keeping the memory of his friend Michael Bloomfield alive 33 years after Mike's death in 1981 by producing that great box set last year. Michael, was one of the most influential and important guitar players of the sixties, it would make sense to put him in the HOF before they erect statues for Ritchie Sambora!

Posted on Feb 27, 2014 11:38:09 AM PST
I haven't read the whole thread, but as I posted elsewhere, the fact that Stevie Ray Vaughn and Rory Gallagher aren't in. And Leon Russell just got in last year? It's so obviously a political crock. Linda Ronstadt should have been in decades ago, but now the sympathy vote gets her in. Embarrassing. I thought inductees are supposed to have some influence on music. Abba?? Seriously.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 11, 2013 9:31:37 AM PST
Green eyed lady - I agree with all + Cheap Trick- Joe D

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 24, 2013 12:59:41 PM PST
[Deleted by the author on Jan 24, 2013 1:06:30 PM PST]

Posted on Jan 24, 2013 9:39:14 AM PST
Joe says:
Mick Abrams (ex original Tull)
Ten Years After
Savoy Brown
Quickslver Messenger Service

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 24, 2013 9:28:41 AM PST
Zolar Waka says:
Goblin! Now that would be a total coup! I would make another trip to commemorate such a thing!

Posted on Jan 24, 2013 7:54:35 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 24, 2013 7:55:16 AM PST
D. Mok says:
> You agree about the dance thing but then reject it because of evolution, comparing the evolution of the arts to
> that of science.

Fine. Dance used to be tribal, and often a means to prepare for battle. Does that mean ballet isn't dance? Country music started as a Southern form. Does that mean a singer from Pennsylvania can't do country? Is that clear enough for you? Jesus.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 24, 2013 7:28:53 AM PST
Severin says:
I know Goblin because they did the soundtrack to the Dario Argento horror film "Suspira". They did several others for him as well. Wikipedia calls them "an Italian progressive rock band".

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 24, 2013 7:17:20 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 24, 2013 7:18:01 AM PST
E. Dill says:
@D. Mok:

I've read your post several times and haven't a clue what you're trying to say.

You agree about the dance thing but then reject it because of evolution, comparing the evolution of the arts to that of science.

You reject my view that many (not all) fans seem wedded to the notion that real rock is hard with the guitar as the prominent instrument. Then you seem to suggest that I think that and you must remind me of artists like Coldplay and Goblin (who in the hell are they?), etc.

And I'm still puzzled by your <<that's not true either>> What either?

In every discussion about the Hall and their failures, the emphasis always seems to be about the dismissal of hard rockers and heavy metalists. Ok, and the prog crowd, too. The biggest critcism always seems to be directed toward Madonna. Often someone will suggest that someone like Sam Cooke is NOT rock n roll and then list 50 hard rockers/heavy metalists that ARE. That's their opinion just like yours is yours.

And thanks for informing me about what rock and roll relies on. I was so confused before. Gee, now that I think of it, thanks for the support for Madonna. After all, she has lots of attitude, rhythm and intensity of emotion. By God, she DOES belong in the Hall after all.

ed.

Posted on Jan 24, 2013 6:35:17 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 24, 2013 11:00:55 AM PST
Working Man says:
Rodgers is not in. Neither Free nor Bad Company are in either. I am not sure either will get in, Free wasn't popular enough in the US and Bad Company, well maybe, they can squeeze in. They had lot's of hits and only six albums but there are some bands that I think had fewer albums that got in so, maybe they have a shot.

Rodgers deserves some sort of lifetime contribution category or something like that.

Posted on Jan 24, 2013 6:16:07 AM PST
train says:
Paul Rodgers in some way deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. Free, Bad Co. I say both deserve to be in. Please correct me if Im wrong and he is in

Posted on Jan 24, 2013 5:27:27 AM PST
D. Mok says:
> Since dance WAS an intregal part of the earliest rock n roll

Yes, it was...but music that's been around for 60 years would *evolve*. You don't say that true medicine is about herbalism, shamanistic rituals and divine intervention just because that's how medicine started. Now, rock and roll encompasses much, much more than music for dance parties.

> Many think of rock as being, essentially, hard with the electric guitar to be the essential and primary instrument.

That's not true either. Roy Orbison is rock and roll (driven by vocals and orchestral instruments); Coldplay and Fats Domino are rock and roll (driven by piano); Goblin is rock and roll (driven by synthesizers). Much of the catalogs of Pink Floyd, Blue Oyster Cult, David Bowie, The Eagles and Dire Straits isn't "hard" at all, and all of them are unequivocally rock and roll.

Rock and roll relies on attitude, rhythm and intensity of emotion as much as on the electric guitar.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 23, 2013 10:42:40 PM PST
E. Dill says:
@Timothy Schubert:

<<The very fact that you would put them on your list makes your entire post suspect and your taste in music even more suspect. I hope you were kidding!>>

Wow. So I see that YOU feel able to decide whose music is valid and whose is suspect. How do you do that? I know. By what YOU like. What else is there?

So I listed something like 60 artists...most if not all will never be in the HOF. That doesn't make me lose sleep at all and I'm ok with the Hall. When I worked in the Federal Bldg. in Cleveland for 29 years, I could see it from my window and walk over there at lunch time in 5 minutes or so. So they don't have a place for Cpt. Beefheart. I do. At home.

I was trying to make a list of some people I find/found quite enjoyable and whose quirks or styles are not meant for commercial success or appeal. While the HOF shouldn't care about such things, they do. Of the 60 I listed, only 2 or 3 could be thought to be a kind of a joke but not the kind you think. Yes, the Shaggs were 3 or 4 teenaged girls whose aggresive father insisted they make a record while the "iron is hot". I'm not sure what he was talking about since his girls couldn't sing, couldn't play their instruments, couldn't keep a beat and couldn't write with coherence. Yes, I have their album and yes, I wouldn't part with it. Why? I'm not sure. When I listen, I don't laugh.

Many years after I had discovered the Shaggs, I found a book in a local bookstore and it was cut in price and I grabbed it. It was entitled, "The Secret History of Rock n Roll". It was all about rockers who were on the outside for one reason or another but always mostly, their brand of music. I'd had other books like that, i.e., The Unknown Legends of Rock n Roll" and "Cult Rockers" among others. But this one was better organized. In it, his choices of artists were split into categories and the one chosen for The Shaggs was "Naive Rock". I liked that. The author says, "As with outsider art, makers of naive rock are eccentrics and visionaries whose talents of expression more than overcome their limited training. With naive rock, not only are technical considerations not important, they can be a disadvantage. Primitive and innocent, the music is free of self=conscious creative restrictions and post modern cynacism."

So, in that chapter on naive rock, I think there are three artists whose music I DID include in my list...the aforementioned Shaggs, Half Japanese, and Daniel Johnston. Of the three, the most saavy musicially would probably be Half Japanese, but not by much. Daniel Johnston's music is often quite childlike but he is suffering from some mental disorder. The Shaggs are just good/bad.

I DO have albums by everyone on that list, BTW. This was no meaningless list. Usually, when I make one of my long lists, I only include artist's whose music I have, unless the list is of my least favorite artists.

Since you obviously know of the Shaggs, I can't help but wonder why, if I wasn't kidding in including them, that it makes my entire post and my taste in music suspect? If you knew the obscure Shaggs, you MUST know a lot of those other 55-60? What do you think of them? I mean, if someone says they want Badfinger in the HOF and Foreigner (someone DID) does my sense of Foreigner's worthlessness make Badfinger worthless, too? No, we're just expressing our own personal tastes in music.

I'm ok with the HOF but I'd much rather hear a song by each of those artists on my list than the Hall's. I don't mind most of the inductees but eventually we'd get to Neil Diamond and I'd go screaming for an exit.

ed.

Posted on Jan 23, 2013 10:01:46 PM PST
E. Dill says:
When Alan Freed began playing black r&b on a white radio station in 1953-4, he used the term rock n roll as a name for it to lessen the controversy. Of course, that, in and of itself was kind of ironic, since the term came from earlier r&b songs when they'd talk about "rocking my baby with a steady roll" and it WAS about sex, just like jazz (jass) was about sex, too. So the FIRST music labeled as rock n roll WAS, in fact, black r&b. Ultimately, the development of rockabilly amongst country artists gave rock n roll a white face, too with Bill Haley making music as early as 1952-3 that met the growing sense (and beat) of rock n roll. But make no mistake. The earliest music coined as "rock n roll" WAS black r&b, especially r&b with a backbeat. It included doo wop, early black solo artists like Little Richard, Fats Domino, Chuck Berry, Bo Diddley, etc. Eventually, it included white artists with country influences like Bill Haley, Elvis Presley, Jerry Lee Lewis, Carl Perkins, etc.

There were some early rock critics, historians and writers that considered a break in the meaning of rock n roll when it more often became referred to as rock. Even I sometimes think of rock as a more inclusive term than rock n roll, yet, of course, a lot of rock fans think just the opposite. Many think of rock as being, essentially, hard with the electric guitar to be the essential and primary instrument. Since my earliest memories of rock n roll often had the sax or the piano as the primary instrument, I didn't view it that way and to this day, do NOT prefer rock music with loud guitar sounds, i.e., hard rock/heavy metal.

So to those who argue that a lot of the music that is in the HOF is not really rock, they are using a much later definition of what rock should be. Since dance WAS an intregal part of the earliest rock n roll, to suggest that someone like Madonna has less to do with the history of the music than, say, Judas Priest, is deciding that rock (n roll) began somewhere in the mid-60's. It didn't.

ed.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 23, 2013 5:49:09 PM PST
Zolar Waka says:
Zappa vs. Mothers of Invention

If that's the case, then the Mothers are the MOST deserving, uninducted rock group out there!

Posted on Jan 22, 2013 5:59:03 PM PST
D. Mok says:
> My point was that the people who vote for this stuff view R&B as part of the Rock & Roll lineage.

Yes, if that's what you had meant, you are correct.

> Artists who don't sound much like R&B have struggled to get recognition by those voters.

You probably mean the Rock and Roll Hall of Fames long-perceived prejudice against progressive rock, and the fact that Rush only got accepted recently.

But I suspect sales also do mean something. Black Sabbath only got in 11 years after its eligibility while U2 was inducted in its first eligible year. Don't get me wrong, I love U2, but Black Sabbath is more influential.

> I bet Nirvana has to wait until 25 years after their 2nd album, rather than 25 years after "Bleach."

No, the Hall's criteria don't care about which of your albums is a smash hit. U2 didn't have to wait until 2009 or 2012 (25 years after The Unforgettable Fire and The Joshua Tree, respectively) to get inducted.

> Zappa only got in 25 years after "Hot Rats" when he could've gotten in (while still alive) 4 years earlier, 25 years after "Freak Out!"

That probably has more to do with the fact that Freak Out! is credited to The Mothers of Invention. The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is quite specific about inductions as a solo artist and as part of a group. That's how they justify inducting The Beatles and then McCartney/Lennon/Harrison individually.

Posted on Jan 22, 2013 2:32:14 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 22, 2013 2:37:45 PM PST
Zolar Waka says:
pil, pere ubu, dinosaur jr., iggy pop; what about Nick Cave? I know the Birthday Party's been around more than 25 years, if not the Bad Seeds.

I will say this. I bet Nirvana has to wait until 25 years after their 2nd album, rather than 25 years after "Bleach." If so, then we know the true criteria, don't we? I mean, Zappa only got in 25 years after "Hot Rats" when he could've gotten in (while still alive) 4 years earlier, 25 years after "Freak Out!" I would've like to hear his acceptance speech! Man, dripping with sarcasm....perhaps total snub. Yet, Lou Reed accepted on his behalf.

Sex Pistols are in, but not pil. That's bizarre to me. Yet, they'd probably put in Madonna, Michael Jackson, U2 and Springsteen 3 times each before adding some of these other deserving bands.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 22, 2013 2:27:10 PM PST
Alt9999 says:
Mok, you seem to be proving my statement wrong by proving it correct. Obviously those R&B artists you listed aren't "Rock & Roll." And of course, at least a few of them are in the HoF because they are viewed as influential by other Rock & Roll artists. However...

My point was that the people who vote for this stuff view R&B as part of the Rock & Roll lineage. Artists who don't sound much like R&B have struggled to get recognition by those voters. At least until recently.

R&B artists are in the HoF because the voters consider them part of the R&R canon. "Rock" artists who distanced themselves from simple R&B are not in the HoF. The distinction between "Rock" and "Rock & Roll" obviously matters to the voters judging by who is in and who is not.

Posted on Jan 22, 2013 9:54:33 AM PST
D. Mok says:
> You pretend as if you are responding to my posts, but your comments bear no relation to anything I've said. And, you continually
> contradict yourself.

With your garbage English, of course you'd think that. You actually think "connected to" is the same thing as "considered as".
Now go brush up on your reading and writing before you start accusing others of "self-contradiction".

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 22, 2013 9:44:26 AM PST
Zolar Waka says:
I lived in Cleveland for years.

The place is kind of cool; the concept itself sucks.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 22, 2013 9:09:55 AM PST
Who said anything about dancing? You pretend as if you are responding to my posts, but your comments bear no relation to anything I've said. And, you continually contradict yourself.

Posted on Jan 22, 2013 7:35:15 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 22, 2013 7:35:50 AM PST
vivazappa says:
Yes
Purple/Rainbow
ELP
A KISS cover band!

Posted on Jan 22, 2013 6:22:41 AM PST
D. Mok says:
That's too bad for you, because rock bands today will call it rock and roll. "Dancing" hasn't been the criterion for rock and roll for decades.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 22, 2013 6:21:50 AM PST
No, that's not what I think.
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This discussion

Discussion in:  Music forum
Participants:  51
Total posts:  92
Initial post:  Dec 16, 2012
Latest post:  Feb 27, 2014

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