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No Expectations

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Initial post: Jun 23, 2012 10:56:10 AM PDT
DKPete says:
I had to put this into it's own thread because a fellow poster-our good friend and details guy BrownFingersDavis (aka, Dibbity Dib)-stated on another thread that Brian Jones does not play the slide on this track from Beggars Banquet-I thought it was practically a given that Brian did, indeed, play slide on the song as he also does on R and R Circus.

Wikipedia, although not the greatest of all sources, also lists Jones as the slide player on the song. I'd appreciate anyone's input on this as I always pretty much considered this Brian's final great moment with The Stones.
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Posted on Jun 23, 2012 11:10:36 AM PDT
@DKPete: you know I just did a Google search and *every* single reference notes Brian Jones on slide on that song--including interview quotes from both Mick and Keef.
I'd say it's a 99.9% chance it's really Brian. I know in that thread I said that I "used to think it was Brian, until about a year ago" but I was mistaking "No Expectations" for "Jigsaw Puzzle" (in which Keith plays the slide and Jones is on mellotron).

Maybe we should go back and inform BFD of his error. ;)

Posted on Jun 23, 2012 11:42:14 AM PDT
All of my references have always stated it was Brian Jones playing slide.

So, now I ask, is that REALLY Jagger on vocals? Hmmmmmm

Posted on Jun 23, 2012 11:43:10 AM PDT
"but I was mistaking "No Expectations" for "Jigsaw Puzzle" (in which Keith plays the slide and Jones is on mellotron)."

Interesting. I wasn't aware of this.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 23, 2012 12:22:08 PM PDT
Dee Zee says:
According to Bill Wyman's recollection in his book Rolling With the Stones, Brian Jones played bottleneck on "No Expectations" and that it was his last significant contribution to a Stones song.

Posted on Jun 23, 2012 12:27:00 PM PDT
Sounds like Jagger to me.
This looks like an old gang hangout. Give my love to Debbie.

Posted on Jun 23, 2012 12:39:25 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 23, 2012 12:47:03 PM PDT
@5:15AM: even "Jigsaw Puzzle" is under slight dispute (it kinda sounds like Brian), but Keith said in a 1988 interview that it was him on slide, plus the session outtakes for the backing track feature Keith counting in his slide part, and Jones is nowhere even to be found. There is also a slide on "Salt Of The Earth" but Keith plays that one, too, and that doesn't seem to be in dispute.

I did finally find a reference to the slide on "No Expectations" being played by someone other than Jones. It's on a Ry Cooder fan site; apparently Cooder popped up for a day or two during the "Beggars" sessions but no-one really knows if he contributed anything. The site speculates he plays the slide on "No Expectations" but offers no proof, and this would totally contradict what Jagger said in a '95 interview about clearly remembering the group recording it live-in-studio with open mikes, and Brian on slide (also we have Wyman's recollection as noted by Dee Zee above). The site then speculates it might also be Cooder on mandolin for "Factory Girl" but other sources state that the "mandolin" is actually a mellotron on the mandolin setting, played by Dave Mason. That could very well be as the instrument reproductions on a mellotron have a very distinctive reverb to them which the 'mandolin' on "Factory Girl" certainly has.

These are the contributions commonly attributed to Jones on the album:

Sympathy For The Devil--backing "woo-woo!" vocals (he played some rhythm acoustic on early takes, as seen in Godard's film footage, but does not play on the final take).
No Expectations--slide guitar (besides Jagger's and Wyman's recollections, Keith also credits Brian on slide here, in the very same interview that he took credit for the slide on "Jigsaw")
Dear Doctor--harmonica (some claim it's Jagger, but the session outtake was live in the studio and features a harmonica player while Jagger is singing, so it has to be Brian)
Parachute Woman--harmonica (this is disputed, some claim it's Jagger)
Jigsaw Puzzle--mellotron
Street Fighting Man--sitar and tamboura
Prodigal Son--harmonica
Stray Cat Blues--mellotron

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 23, 2012 1:08:28 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 23, 2012 1:42:31 PM PDT
Dee Zee says:
Ry Cooder did play on Memo From Turner which was recorded about the same time. Maybe thats the connection.

Posted on Jun 23, 2012 1:32:13 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 23, 2012 2:08:37 PM PDT
@Dee Zee: "Memo From Turner" was recorded in Sept '68, a few months after the "Beggars" sessions were completed, but it's definitely Cooder on guitar there. Cooder also showed up playing mandolin (a for real one this time!) on "Love In Vain" a year later, although that might be the source of speculation that he did the mandolin on "Factory Girl". He also played on "Sister Morphine" from the "Bleed" sessions although that one was held over until "Sticky Fingers" of course. An excellent guitarist and songwriter whose early solo albums were superb--but I don't think he appears at all on "Beggar's Banquet".

Updated news flash--after a little more digging, I found an interesting reference to an interview with Ry Cooder in which he claims that the first time he met Jagger was during the recording of Marianne Faithfull's "Something Better" in July 1968. The sessions for "Beggars" finished on June 30, so if we are to trust this source, there is no way Cooder could have played on the album. His first Stones-related recording was "Memo From Turner" and his first (and only) proper Stones sessions were in the spring of '69 for "Love In Vain", "Sister Morphine" and "Downtown Suzie", for which he received credit.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 23, 2012 6:34:27 PM PDT
DKPete says:
Aw, shucks!

Posted on Jun 23, 2012 6:38:43 PM PDT
DKPete says:
Michael, thanks for a very informative post.

Now...let's move on to You Got The Silver..definitely not Brian on that one..but who's doing the slide? Cooder or Richards? The liner notes on LIB simply state that Keith is on guitars (while Cooder is credited elsewhere on the album).

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 23, 2012 6:58:19 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 23, 2012 6:59:00 PM PDT
Dee Zee says:
You Got the Silver along with Midnight Rambler were the first songs recorded in February 1969. Keef plays the guitars on Silver. Brian Jones is on autoharp for Silver and percussion on Mid.Rambler. These February sessions may be Jones' last as a Stone although he may have been at a March 16 session at Olympic.

My source for this info is the 1997 book IT'S ONLY ROCK AND ROLL by Karnbach and Bernson. This is the only book I know that attempts a day to day reconstruction of the Stones' career and has a sessionography section.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 24, 2012 4:45:46 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 24, 2012 11:33:26 AM PDT
"No Expectations" was Brian Jones' last truly great moment, and it was appropriately captured on the best Stones album of all time.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 24, 2012 6:27:33 AM PDT
DKPete says:
Thanks Dee Zee..there seemed to be some Cooder-related conflict over You Got The Silver as well which, I always thought, featured Keiths very distinct slide-it was always moreso atmosphereic than actual lead slide parts like what were done a bit later by Mick Taylor. Overall, I always considered LIB to be Richard's finest "showcase" moment guitar wise as he did most of the playing himself.
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Discussion in:  Music forum
Participants:  6
Total posts:  14
Initial post:  Jun 23, 2012
Latest post:  Jun 24, 2012

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