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Why is Steam suddenly bad?


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In reply to an earlier post on Jun 24, 2009 8:29:16 AM PDT
WolfPup says:
Have you READ what's been said in this thread? What the objections to it are?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 24, 2009 9:00:27 AM PDT
R. J. Satori says:
Clearly not. :/

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 24, 2009 9:29:38 AM PDT
WolfPup says:
Have you READ what's been said in this thread? What the objections to it are?
____
Since there is a 177 posts on the subject, the majority of which are big-brother hysterial or rationalizations for piracy, I sincerely ask for a summary. My lack of any problems using Steam may have glossed over my reading and I might have missed something huge. It can't hurt the discussion to have a re-cap as one of the newer posts. If you don't mind.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 24, 2009 9:57:20 AM PDT
Bryan says:
Oh and don't forget the several folks who embrace DRM because "it's the right thing to do". Perhaps they work for the industry? Maybe they don't mind being treated like a potential thief? Could they be Fanboys that want the approval of other Fanboys? who knows why people like to embrace controls placed on them? What's in it for you? If my attitude is "Big Brother Hysteria", what makes your opinion better?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 24, 2009 10:05:52 AM PDT
WolfPup says:
Dale, you didn't even read the responses to your earlier posts? We summarized it just fine there.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 24, 2009 10:33:27 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 24, 2009 10:36:29 AM PDT
WolfPup says:
Have you READ what's been said in this thread? What the objections to it are?
____
Ok, I actually went back and re-read through the posts but I still can't get worked up about people's problems with Steam.
*Don't want to access the internet every time you play? Switch to off-line mode once you are done with the activation.
*Don't have access to the internet to activate game? Really? Better stick with ten-year old games then because internet gaming is the future. Sorry, but it's the truth.
*Company goes out of business? OUCH. Now that one does burn and I'll give it to you. However, personally, I think there is just way too many new games coming out to keep up with, let alone bothering to replay the oldies. I'm just not that nostalgic.

You'll have to forgive me but I've never had a single problem with Steam so I'm going to voice my good experience. I think people should be aware that the service isn't the total nightmare described in the previous posts.
____

And Marty, people are treated like potential terrorists everyday at the airport, you gonna boycott airplanes? Life is too short for all of your hang-ups.

(As a side note: Did everyone note how the Anti-DRM people "protested" the DRM on Spore? They downloaded pirated copies of it in record numbers. Spare me your moral indignation; my stating that this argument is more about the right to piracy still stands.)

Posted on Jun 24, 2009 10:40:17 AM PDT
WolfPup says:
<<<Dale Albrecht says:
Ok, I actually went back and re-read through the posts but I still can’t get worked up about people’s problems with Steam.>>>

I don't see how you could possibly miss it, but anyway...among other issues, you don't own anything you "buy" from Steam. That's the biggest complaint.

<<<And Marty, people are treated like potential terrorists everyday at the airport, you gonna boycott airplanes? Life is too short for all of your hang-ups.>>>

Plenty of people object to that and end up using other transportation now. And anyway, what kind of argument is that? One industry stinks, so they all should? And don't belittle him with that smug "hang-up" phrasing. Wanting to own games you buy isn't a minor "hang up"/

<<<my stating that this argument is more about the right to piracy still stands.>>>

No it doesn't, and you've once again proven you don't have a clue what you're talking about. We already went through this the LAST time you posted these exact same industry claims.

This has NOTHING to do with stealing games. People who steal games ARE NOT AFFECTED BY DRM. The only people affected by activation are PAYING CUSTOMERS.

All of which I and others already told you the last time you claimed it...

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 24, 2009 10:44:53 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 24, 2009 10:45:19 AM PDT
Bryan says:
Not a good analogy. The Airport is to save lives, not to stop people from stealing. Anyway, ...Obviously then you are a pirate that needs outside control to stop yourself from breaking the law. Enjoy it. I plan to avoid it wherever possible. What do you do for a living? Just out of curiosity?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 24, 2009 11:02:55 AM PDT
Marty said: "...Obviously then you are a pirate that needs outside control to stop yourself from breaking the law." This is completely idiotic, if I have NO problems with Steam, online activation, or DRM how does this make me a pirate?

And since my analogy was too big of a leap for you how's this: Do you boycott every store that puts anti-theft tags on merchandise so you won't be accused of being a shop-lifter? Is that better?

And, no, I don't work for Steam.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 24, 2009 11:15:37 AM PDT
Bryan says:
So who do you work for? ...Me? I am a medical worker. Not only do you "not have a problem" with DRM, you are "Pro- DRM" . I note you start insulting easily, I credit that to your weak argument.

Do you work in software by any chance? perhaps?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 24, 2009 11:21:07 AM PDT
WolfPup says:
<I don't see how you could possibly miss it, but anyway...among other issues, you don't own anything you "buy" from Steam. That's the biggest complaint.>

Like I said, I'm not much of a pack-rat and have a pretty high turnover on games anyway. Thus far, I haven't lost a single purchase I've made from Steam, so I have no complaints.

<Plenty of people object to that and end up using other transportation now. And anyway, what kind of argument is that? One industry stinks, so they all should? And don't belittle him with that smug "hang-up" phrasing. Wanting to own games you buy isn't a minor "hang up">

And the number of people who stopped using airlines because of anti-terrorism precautions were so many they shut down the industry right? I own the games on Steam, how can I make THAT any clearer?

<This has NOTHING to do with stealing games. People who steal games ARE NOT AFFECTED BY DRM. The only people affected by activation are PAYING CUSTOMERS.>

And again, look how all of the anti-DRM people protested Spore: THEY DOWNLOADED PIRATED VERSIONS IN RECORD NUMBERS. Obviously they knew how to find and download pirated software so maybe those who `protest too much' SHOULD be considered thieves, yes? I'm sure the irony of people downloading pirated software because of anti-piracy measures can't be lost you.

Listen, you guys are on your little soapbox - whether you are rationalizing your piracy or legitimately want to `own' your games - and you are going to shout out any dissenting opinions. The only reason I got mixed up in this discussion was because I'm tired of people like you screwing up product ratings due to their paper-crusades. Try and rate the games based on the game itself and not your big-brother-boogeyman hang-ups.

Please return to stoking your fears - I've wasted enough time here.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 24, 2009 11:23:14 AM PDT
Bryan says:
WHERE DO YOU WORK?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 24, 2009 11:30:09 AM PDT
Gah! I will assure you that I have nothing to do with software development. I'm just someone who isn't (hasn't been) impacted by Steam or anti-piracy software in the slightest. As I said below, I'm just sick of people ruining product ratings on amazon with their petty crusades that have nothing to do with the product being reviewed.

Stay away from Steam, run screaming from DRM software, don't use downloadable content - I don't care! But please try to review products based off the product and not pocket-agendas.

Again, I'll leave ya'll to your obsession

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 24, 2009 11:34:54 AM PDT
H. Le says:
Dale Albrecht,

"...the majority of [the comments] are big-brother hysterial or rationalizations for piracy"

It seems like your prejudice helped you glossed over quite a few well argued comments - both pro and con - in this thread.

"Did everyone note how the Anti-DRM people "protested" the DRM on Spore? They downloaded pirated copies of it in record numbers"

Fact (how many anti-DRM posters advocate piracy?) ? Or generalization (based on prejudice) ?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 24, 2009 11:40:27 AM PDT
Bryan says:
Now that you have told us how to behave... Well have a nice life. Enjoy your DRM.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 24, 2009 12:54:22 PM PDT
Kid Icarus says:
most are just children with a credit card. As one mentioned, some places don't have online connection, also, why does the purchaser have to "feel guilty" and be called a "pirate" because one says he doesn't like to "prove ownership" of a game, very anti-capitolist-liberty to me. You buy it, no one should ask you questions. If money flows like the trees and the river, well, that is why people defend big business over piracy, I defend niether. Most odviously have too many boats and houses!

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 24, 2009 1:00:09 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 24, 2009 1:01:46 PM PDT
R. J. Satori says:
I hypothesized some months back that possibly some personal investment in the success of Valve/Steam may be behind the odd behaviour of dismissive pro-Steam zealots. After watching this last exchange I am beginning to think is is something more fundamental. It seems to be a more primal authoritarian desire to suppress dissent.

If that is the case, it is a personality trait. The individual's primal socializing response is triggered by any act of complaint they come across and do not immediately comprehend. Complainers are grouped with other criminals in the individuals' perception of anti-social, or anti-conformist, behaviour. So this person feels a deep personal need to diminish this threat to conformity and order, but does not have a rational motive. Rather he or she is following an emotional response, instinctively.

If I am even close to correct, it begs the question: what is the appropriate response? Can someone acting on such an instinct be reasoned with? Possibly such a person will later re-evaluate an argument, once the instinct has loosed it's grip, but while driven by it... I wonder.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 24, 2009 1:01:22 PM PDT
Kid Icarus says:
if you are countering mr. a.'s post, i'd say it is a positive link. What do you think would happen if we legalized marajauna(not be sound ignorant with mispelling) I think their would be less drug use and scarely any addicts or junkies. telltale's leanient policy for there games has gained them few if any complaints. Mostly loyal gaming buyers, like me, they even delayed my promised shipment on back order but I give them the benifit to the doubt because they are forgiving in other respects.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 24, 2009 1:05:14 PM PDT
Kid Icarus says:
http://www.telltalegames.com/termsofuse
http://www.telltalegames.com/privacypolicy
http://www.telltalegames.com/support/

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 25, 2009 11:13:18 AM PDT
WolfPup says:
<<<Dale Albrecht says:
I'm just sick of people ruining product ratings on amazon with their petty crusades that have nothing to do with the product being reviewed.>>>

"Petty crusade"? "Nothing to do with the product being reviewed"?

You are STILL not getting it. Activation *IS* part of the product you're "buying".

<<<But please try to review products based off the product and not pockt-agendas.>>>

That *IS* reviewing it based on the product. The activation *IS INSEPARABLE FROM THE REST OF THE PRODUCT* Don't you get that? It would be like if you sat around insulting people for giving a movie a bad review because of the story, and claimed "why don't you review the film based on its merits, rather than the story!"

R. J. Satori, very interesting observation and question.

I've been increasingly thinking the impulse for religiosity is the same thing that causes people to have these "system wars" silliness, or unjustified devotion to a particular brand of truck, or fanaticism for a sports team, etc., and I wonder if the type of person like that is also someone who might be the type of person like you describe.

Kid Prometheus, so Telltale's games if you get them....through their site? through retail? Don't have activation? If so, that's really cool, though unfortunately I really don't like point and click style adventure games (I sort of wish I did, as so many of them have interesting set ups, etc.!)

Posted on Jun 25, 2009 12:12:02 PM PDT
Bryan says:
I find it hard that some of these people have no investment in the argument other than they simply don't mind DRM. Every so often someone goes through the threads here and crusades for it. Isn't it just odd?

Posted on Jun 25, 2009 1:05:35 PM PDT
WolfPup says:
Very. I'm sure at least some of it is from marketing people. There's a person over in the PSP Go forums that I'm guessing is also a marketing person (sort of a related situation given the Go exists to push people to downloads with activation, without actually adding any new features).

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 25, 2009 2:06:00 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 25, 2009 2:07:44 PM PDT
Dreaming.. says:
*I've been increasingly thinking the impulse for religiosity is the same thing that causes people to have these "system wars" silliness, or unjustified devotion to a particular brand of truck, or fanaticism for a sports team, etc., and I wonder if the type of person like that is also someone who might be the type of person like you describe.*

that would also explain the need to point fingers out at *sinners* who don't follow their own systems of beliefs, which you so rightly describe as "unjustified devotion to a particular...(something)".

anyway, it's hard to argue with zealotry, just take a look around the world, yet the common ground for our argument is the same, DRM like activities go after the destruction of the second hand market, and it's only affecting legit users.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 25, 2009 2:47:39 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 25, 2009 2:51:56 PM PDT
R. J. Satori says:
An invitation to a tangent that I cant resist there... but I should admit that the way I presented that was more a dig at Dale (turnabout is fair play) than a strictly objective observation. ;)

Religion is a subject I'm fond of (I'm not a true believer, but neither am I one of those who ascribe all the evils of the world to religions). I am sure that religions attract the same controlling personality types, but that's just a certain kind of person. Take away their religious conviction, they'll find some other "order" to champion -- perhaps militant atheism. Religion also attracts lots of other types. You really can't generalize a particular personality type as being attracted to religion or not.

As well, I think that all religions attract the same gamut of personalities. From the controllers to the opportunists to the truly pious. Yeah, I've come across controlling Buddhists... all Americans, maybe that's a factor, but then I deal mostly with Americans on a daily basis so I don't have a lot of experience with native Asian Buddhists.

In any case, we should probably all stand back and analyze our own behaviour and motives now and then.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 25, 2009 3:23:14 PM PDT
Bryan says:
My own motivation is simple. Self interest. To be totally honest, if the DRM schemes were totally undetectable with normal, legal use, used no resources and left me with open-ended ownership of a single copy of a software I have purchased forever more....I wouldn't be here.

I do like to debate but on a lightweight scale. Polite debate that doesn't overly test my knowledge on the subject :) The last thing I mean is ill will to anyone.
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