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What exactly do people have against hippies/liberals?

Discussion moved to this forum by Amazon on Jul 26, 2012 7:09:31 AM PDT.


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Showing 1451-1475 of 1000 posts in this discussion
In reply to an earlier post on Aug 6, 2012 12:01:55 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 6, 2012 12:27:00 PM PDT
Bob says:
Actually I am using foxnews as my source to the history of this show vote;

---

House Republicans last tried this same tactic in 2000 on President Clinton's budget.
House Democrats floated three of President Reagan's budgets in the 1980s. Those budgets collected 28, 15 and one votes, respectively.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/03/28/gop-run-house-easily-rejects-obama-budget/#ixzz22nHx1B00

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 6, 2012 12:04:38 PM PDT
J. D. Baker says:
There you go again....
If you can't address the facts, ignore them and simply accuse others of being partisan. Interesting. Exactly the same approach taken by Reid.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 6, 2012 12:23:23 PM PDT
Bob says:
The facts are a top line budget with no proposal backbone is a trick.

Both the republicans AND the democrats have engaged in it during the past. I will call it out as a pointless trick everytime I see it no matter what side is doing it.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 6, 2012 12:28:59 PM PDT
J. D. Baker says:
BLS 2011 Data:
Union membership for Public Sector workers is 37% vs. 6.9% in private sector.

As the unfunded pensions, problems, and liabilities mount, the USA will be forced to deal honestly with the inherent conflict of interest between unionized government workers and taxpayers. It's already underway.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 6, 2012 12:40:04 PM PDT
J. D. Baker says:
You say unions are run on one man, one vote. Yet, when union members have the right to determine their own fate, how does it work out?

Hence, sharp declines in USA union membership for the real economy (i.e., "private sector") and growing number of Right to Work states.

And, finally, after decades of kicking the can down the road, with American finances deteriorating and government spending out of control, serious attention is being paid to costs and liabilities accrued by/for unions in government.

Government payroll and head count must be slashed - Americans can't afford it. Afscme Council 24, which represents Wisconsin state workers, watched its membership plunge last year by two-thirds to 7,100 from 22,300. More will follow.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 6, 2012 12:44:39 PM PDT
J. D. Baker says:
While you ignore Media Matters, and the extreme left-wing blogosphere who are wholly in the bag for their political masters and patrons.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 6, 2012 12:47:59 PM PDT
J. D. Baker says:
I'm not going to chase the red herring.

Staying on point:
Senator Reid has made deliberate and unlawful decisions to actively obstruct adoption of any budget in the Senate for three years.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 6, 2012 12:51:32 PM PDT
Bob says:
Paul Ryan does not set the agenda. Try again.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 6, 2012 1:26:24 PM PDT
Ataraxia says:
"Today, in the USA, anyone can make it regardless of whether they are from "landed gentry" or otherwise. "

Yeah, because we have publicly funded public schools and state schools, because people have healthcare, because if a business fails, we support people with benefits so that they can afford to take risks again. If the cost of failing at a business was starvation and homelessness for you and your family, how many would take risks?

Do you think for a moment that Mitt Romney would have been in the same position of wealth and privilege if, instead of being born as the son of the former governor of Michigan, with an elite private boarding high school and Cambridge education, he had born to a family of poverty with no father figure in a drug and gang infested inner city?

People do not succeed in a vacuum, even Chuck Norris. Yes, the ones who do deserve alot of credit for hard work. But all the hard work in the world won't get you anywhere if your environment is bad. And the proper role of government is to make sure that environment and opportunities is available. So yes, that means spending tax money on public schools, state schools, police and fire departments to establish some safety and security, etc...

There are two concepts that I think those on the right don't really understand: "wealth condensation", and "spirals of poverty". These occur when those with money can be in a position to make even more, and those who are poor end up in a relentless downward spiral. If a truck driver can afford to buy his own truck, he can make alot more money long term because he doesn't have to pay for his truck on a monthly basis.

If someone gets a top-notch education at an expensive private boarding school like Mitt, his chances of succeeding are much better than someone whose family can't afford to send him to school.

A Framework for Understanding Poverty

Posted on Aug 6, 2012 2:08:46 PM PDT
J. D. Baker says:
The government of the United States is a definite government, confined to specified objects. It is not like the state governments, whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government.

James Madison, sourced from Elliot's Debates regarding a proposed subsidy bill, House of Representatives, January 10, 1794

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 6, 2012 2:18:18 PM PDT
Dixie Recht says:
Government is the answer. Yeah, that's it. No one is capable of doing anything on their own. No, only government can "empower" the individual. That's a shame you feel that way. So much evidence to the contrary.

How's that working out in North Korea? Or for that matter socialized Europe. The people have little or nothing, the governments are broke and people are not getting what government benefits were expected. And the solution from folks like you? Tax the "greedy" even more to give the dregs the money.

Too bad your government schools have taught you that you are incapable of success without them. Must be a really dismal day with that mentality.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 6, 2012 2:52:06 PM PDT
J. D. Baker says:
The risk (and sometimes, actual reality) of starvation and homelessness drove people TO America. Many American "rags to riches" stories pre-date the modern socialist/welfare state.

There was no national (federal) healthcare, welfare, etc., and yet our mighty nation was built on the successes (and failures) of the generations of Americans who came before us. Families looked after each other, communities helped each other, charities supported the unfortunate - all VOLUNTARY without government coercion - and folks of all socio-economic origins including those of humble means, many self-educated, chose to strive for success DESPITE the risks and without any programs or hand-outs from a massive, over-reaching, intrusive federal government.

Margaret Thatcher succinctly captured the issue thusly:
"The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money".

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 6, 2012 3:15:04 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 6, 2012 3:16:16 PM PDT
Ataraxia says:
"Families looked after each other, communities helped each other, charities supported the unfortunate - all VOLUNTARY without government coercion "

Wow. Sounds so wonderful- it must have been utopia!

Not. The gut-wrenching working conditions in factories was what led to calls for laws on child labor, workplace safety, anti-harrassment, employee rights, etc...

This was no utopia. It was the age of the robber barons, when you had a few at the very top with more money than most nations, and most others working 80 hour weeks in dangerous workplaces, still unable to buy food.

Here, take a look. It was no "families looked after each other" nonsense:
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=child+labor+during+the+industrial+revolution+images&qpvt=child+labor+during+the+industrial+revolution+images&FORM=IGRE

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 6, 2012 4:11:30 PM PDT
witchie+ says:
I am impressed with your threats and know that you mean them. That is one more reason to vote for Obama and no Republicans in November.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 6, 2012 4:12:25 PM PDT
witchie+ says:
Yes, I know your threats--the Republican party has been a great anti-union backer.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 6, 2012 4:13:18 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 6, 2012 4:15:51 PM PDT
witchie+ says:
What article in Media Matters are you quoting?

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 7, 2012 7:27:25 PM PDT
"And the solution from folks like you? Tax the "greedy" even more to give the dregs the money."

Hello? "Even more?" where have you been since the last fifty years? We now tax the Rich the LEAST of the last fifty years. And (oh, yeah) we had a MUCH more robust economy when we DID tax them seventy percent.

I know you get your "figures" from FAUX, so what do they have on that one, eh?

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 7, 2012 7:30:25 PM PDT
And JD Baker, you too, forget that America's "Glory Days" were when we taxed the Rich seventy percent of their income. So now, when we are down to around fifteen percent, why aren't they "making the jobs" they said they would?

Any answers on that; or just more "Liberals = Bad" froth?

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 7, 2012 7:59:47 PM PDT
"Clarinet:
Yes, Daniel, "FORCE" everyone. That is the essence of socialism. "

Hello? Are we even on the same planet, here? I just got through telling you that REAL Socialism CANNOT EXIST in this world BECAUSE it would require UNIFORM AGREEMENT between EVERYONE as to what to do. How does that equal FORCING anything on anyone, to you?

And MY words that YOU quoted were applied to Theoretical Market Capitalism, which WOULD require force, if the needed strictures were to be adhered to.

Market Capitalism, you see, ASSUMES something called "perfect information," which means that EVERY player in the market has ALL of the information on what the market it doing... OR... the FREE Market CANNOT exist -- because SOME players are disadvantaged compared to others. The FREE Market is a hypothetical beast, even as true Socialism is.

"Everyone" will never agree on "everything," so Socialism can never really exist, and there will ALWAYS be some secrets in the market, so FREE Market Capitalism can never really exist.

I am talking here not of what works or doesn't, but of the lie of calling Obama (for instance) a "Socialist." He is not, and no amount of talking by FAUX will or can make him one.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 5:20:24 PM PDT
J. D. Baker says:
What threat??
The hard, cold reality is that the government gravy train has reached the end of the track.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 5:47:13 PM PDT
J. D. Baker says:
A Little History Lesson about Unions in America....

If you want to paint a picture, use all the crayons and make sure you put everything into the frame.
The history of American labor union violence is extensive, dating all the way back to the 1870s. Below are a few you may wish to become acquainted with:

1. The Great Railroad Strike of 1877
When: July 1877
Where: Martinsburg, W.Va., Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Reading, Pa., Chicago
Why: Baltimore & Ohio Railroad cut wages for a second time in a year; strikers blocked train service
Carnage/Casualties: Street battles with federal troops; soldiers injured; trains damaged; a station, bridge, and trainyards torched.

2. The Haymarket Affair
When: May 4, 1886
Where: Haymarket Square, Chicago
Why: Demonstration supporting striking workers

Carnage/Casualties: Dynamite bomb thrown at police dispersing crowd; blast and mostly "friendly" retaliatory gunfire left eight police dead. Eight anarchists tried for murder; four convicted/executed, one committed suicide in prison. Event inspired caricature of bomb-throwing anarchist.


3. Homestead Strike
When: June-July 1892
Where: Carnegie Steel Mill, Homestead, Pa.; office, Pittsburgh
Why: Considered among most violent labor disputes in U.S. history, mill union wanted contract and mill management locked out workers.

Carnage/Casualties: Pinkerton guards fired on strikers; three guards surrendered, were disarmed, and beaten by a mob. Seven guards and 11 strikers/spectators shot to death. Later, Russian-born anarchist Alexander Berkman attempted to assassinate Carnegie chairman Henry Clay Frick in his Pittsburgh office.


3. Coeur d'Alene Miner Strike
When: July 1892
Where: Frisco Mill, Coeur d'Alene, Id.
Why: Striking miners incensed at Pinkerton infiltration into union

Carnage/Casualties: Strikers dynamited Frisco Mill; two company men killed; strikers captured 60 mine guards; martial law declared; national guard/federal troops ended unrest.



4. Pullman Railroad Strike
When: May-July 1894
Where: Nationwide, culminating in Chicago
Why: Strike against wage reduction

Carnage/Casualties: 1892 World's Columbian Exposition in Chicago's Jackson Park torched; seven buildings burned to ground; railroad cars burned/looted; street fights with police; 14,000 federal and state troops put down strike.

5. Killing of William Healy
When: February 3, 1930
Where: Chicago
Why: Marble Setters Union had been having difficulties with Healy, a contractor

Carnage/Casualties: "Chicagorillas" (labor racketeers) shot and killed Healy.


6. Blinding of Victor Riesel
When: April 5, 1956
Where: New York City
Why: Riesel's syndicated newspaper column crusaded against labor racketeers

Carnage/Casualties: A gangster threw sulfuric acid in Riesel's face, permanently blinding him.

7. New York Daily News Strike
When: 1990

Carnage/Casualties: Strikers attacked delivery trucks with stones and sticks; some burned; some drivers beaten. Newsstands threatened with arson; copies of paper burned in front of newsstands; hundreds of violent acts reported/alleged. No convictions.

8. Killing of Eddie York
When: July 22, 1993
Where: Coal mine, Logan Co., W.Va.
Why: York shot and killed after crossing United Mine Workers picket line

Carnage/Casualties: Workmates attempting to rescue York were beaten. AFL-CIO chief Richard Trumpka, then leader of UMW: "I'm saying if you strike a match and you put your finger in it, you're likely to get burned." According to National Legal and Policy Center, Trumka's lawyers settled a $27 million wrongful death suit filed by York's widow; Trumka "did not publicly discipline or reprimand a single striker present when York was killed. In fact, all eight were helped out financially by the local," according to Reader's Digest.


9. Rod Carter Attack
When: August 7, 1997
Where: Miami
Why: Carter attacked after crossing UPS driver picket line; a former Dallas Cowboys linebacker, Carter was interviewed on TV news the day before saying he wouldn't strike so he could provide for his family.

Carnage/Casualties: Teamsters pulled Carter from truck and beat, kicked, and stabbed him six times with an ice pick. Carter won an undisclosed civil-suit settlement in 2001.

10. Local 17 Case
When: various
Where: Buffalo, N.Y.

Carnage/Casualties: Union members charged with pouring sand into construction vehicle engines, stabbing company exec in the neck, tossing hot coffee at non-union workers, and threatening to sexually assault the wife of a company rep. AFL-CIO lawyer: "We're not condoning the allegations or arguing that union officials are completely immune from prosecution. Instead, we simply want to make sure that the [federal law] is not interpreted in a way that could have a chilling effect on legitimate union activity."



11. Washington State Port Dispute
When: September 2011

Carnage/Casualties: Ports shut down in response to dispute between workers union and grain export terminal owner in Longview, Wa.; about 500 longshoremen carried baseball bats into terminal, smashed windows, damaged rail cars, dumped tons of grain from cars; later more than 1,000 longshoremen didn't go to work, shutting down Seattle and Tacoma ports. "It's certainly getting more and more violent," said Jim Duscha, police chief of Longview. "The terminal's security guards were outnumbered by people with baseball bats. People were busting windows out of the guard shack. They took a security guard out of his rig and drove it into a ditch."

Posted on Aug 8, 2012 6:03:18 PM PDT
J. D. Baker says:
Enjoy.....
The Politically Incorrect Guide to Socialism

Available right here on Amazon.com

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 6:13:46 PM PDT
J. D. Baker says:
As readily admitted on their web-site:

"Media Matters for America is a Web-based, not-for-profit, 501(c)(3) progressive research and information center..."

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 9:47:30 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 8, 2012 9:50:44 PM PDT
Kathleen Pelley:
"Obama is far more conservative than my ideal candidate"
"What does Alger Hiss have to do with the price of tea in China?"
Clarinet:
At least Obama might be more conservative than Alger Hiss. Maybe. Who IS this ideal candidate that you like so much who is less conservative than Obama?

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 9, 2012 10:46:03 AM PDT
witchie+ says:
Dennis Kucinich, Bernie Sanders, even Hilary Clinton are/were more liberal than Obama. Even Nixon and Eisenhower were more liberal than Obama. I have yet to find a less conservative candidate than Obama whom I would consider voting for.
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