Customer Discussions > Politics forum

It's cheaper to educate people than to incarcerate them


Sort: Oldest first | Newest first
Showing 226-250 of 298 posts in this discussion
In reply to an earlier post on Jun 21, 2012 2:46:45 PM PDT
M. Daniel says:
Krystal says: "Both Portugal and Mexico have decriminalized drugs for personal use. No horror stories that I have heard so far."

Portugal decriminalized which I think would be preferable to legalization.

http://www.cato.org/publications/white-paper/drug-decriminalization-portugal-lessons-creating-fair-successful-drug-policies

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 21, 2012 3:31:32 PM PDT
neonpisces says:
> Why are spendthrift conservatives so excited about putting people in prison?

Because they also want to privatize the prisons.

Prisons aren't profitable without prisoners.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 22, 2012 8:25:57 AM PDT
*It's somewhat timely that you mention Amsterdam. I believe that a 2009 survey conducted by Jellinek Institute supports my opinion that less restriction will result in more drug use. They found that among 266 coffee shop visitors, 94 percent of respondents admitted having used cannabis during the previous month. Almost 75 percent of them reported daily cannabis use, averaging just fewer than four joints per day.

I have never been there but I always heard that people were really excieted to go. Yes, a great deal of people use drugs even if they are illegal the next question is how many do not because of laws. Not many people from the US actually travel to places where drugs are legal so there is no way to compare or measure a negative.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 22, 2012 8:30:11 AM PDT
*Creaney, you have absolutely NO responsibility for humanity.

No because they have a responsiblity to themselves if they are able. How many of us made the choices and decission to have productive lives? Why can't we have the same expectations of others that we have for ourselves. My responsiblity is to take care of my self and those that are important to me.

I have a responsiblity for humanity to be productive and support measures so that there are fewer and fewer people who need to be helped.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 22, 2012 8:34:38 AM PDT
lowbo says:
You are the grand poobah of conservative rationalization.

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
― John Kenneth Galbraith

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 22, 2012 8:36:07 AM PDT
*When some schools don't teach, and there is no guidance at home, failure is almost assured!

Don't we have a human will? We have an inherent reason where we can observe the world and make judgments and choices. There is a self that each of these people have and that self can reject their situation use their inherent reason to take measures to change their situation.

Humans exist not because we are strong fast or hearty. It is our ability to observe a situation and through a rational process and adapt.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 22, 2012 8:41:18 AM PDT
lowbo says:
"Humans exist not because we are strong fast or hearty. It is our ability to observe a situation and through a rational process and adapt."

Or, in your case, not.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 22, 2012 8:58:50 AM PDT
How do you plan to change genetic wiring and any individual's moral compass?

http://www.macalester.edu/academics/psychology/whathap/ubnrp/serialkillers/psychological_assoc.html

Yeah, if only Dahmer et al would have been educated.

Come to think of it, here's a list of physicians that were criminals:
John Bodkin Adams - British suspected serial killer.
Karl Brandt (1904-1948) - Nazi human experimentation
Baruch Goldstein - assassin
Radovan Karadžić (b. 1945) - accused of ethnic cleansing in Yugoslavia
Josef Mengele (1911-1979) - known as the Angel of Death, Nazi human experimentation
Herta Oberheuser (1911-1978) - Nazi human experimentation
Shiro Ishii - headed Japan's Unit 731 during World War II which conducted human experimentation for weapons and medical research
Harold Shipman (1946-2004)- British mass murderer
Richard J. Schmidt - American physician who contaminated his girlfriend with AIDS-tainted blood
Samir Geagea (1952- ) - Very Long list
Shaker El Abssi (1955- ) - Palestinian responsible for the murder of the US Ambassador in Jordan, and many lebanese soldiers

Don't forget about OBL. He had a degree in Civil Engineering.

Posted on Jun 22, 2012 9:11:37 AM PDT
lowbo says:
Let's see...

divide 12 by 7,000,000,000 and you get the percentage of humanity represented by your sample.

I see you are a true fan of human potential.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 22, 2012 9:11:40 AM PDT
*The system is top-down, doesn't value students, doesn't value teachers, hamstrings great teachers, promotes obsequiousness, chases out young teachers, and values compliance above all else. Don't get me started.

That is a government monopoly and beaurocracy. I advocate breaking up that monopoly and giving each person their share of education dollars and go to the school of their choice. What you describe is the result of socialism. That is the customers, the comunity and the families have pay for that system if they use it or not. If they choose to not use it they have to pay again for a school of their choice.

I am sure there are far more teachers that are passionate about teaching and they need to be unleased. They need to be treated like the professionals they are. If they are not passionate or professionals we have to kindly ask them to seek another line of work.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 22, 2012 9:12:54 AM PDT
lowbo says:
But teachers are the problem...

Right?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 22, 2012 9:27:26 AM PDT
*I'm not a big teachers union fan, but at this point the unions are the only ones going to bat for teachers. Yes there are bad teachers, but a lot more of them would be good if they didn't have to swim upstream IN ADDITION to doing a very tough job. When you have to fight every minute of every day for opportunities to teach (and I'm not talking about fighting the kids), it's exhausting.

I bet it is. I think that teachers do need support but unions might not be the best way. I can say that I do care about educating myself and I have had some actual training experience.

I can look back at my educational experience and I did not do so well in mandatory school but much better in college where I learned things that were more real. Reading the acutal thinkers that influenced our world from Plato Aristotle Freud Nietzsche Kant the Federalists and on and on.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 22, 2012 9:31:52 AM PDT
M. Daniel says:
Joseph M. Creaney says: "I advocate breaking up that monopoly and giving each person their share of education dollars and go to the school of their choice."

Currently the school district builds the school which is a separate cost than operating cost. Where does the money come from for the (private?) schools for the buildings? A student's share of the educational dollar cannot include building costs because that would greatly increase the costs of education or be insufficient for all these competing schools.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 22, 2012 9:33:19 AM PDT
*I taught in inner city Phoenix for 20 years

I had a recent experience. I have a lingering guilt for not doing well in advanced math and I have been watching some video lessons on Caclulus and Trigonometry. I sat down with my daughter (5th grade) to teach her about triangles a^2+B^2=C^2 and she told be they would learn that in a few years and would feel out of place if she was ahead. I was not the best student but If I could say I knew something it would cause some pride.

It is very hard to try to get them to value education and do what they need to do. I understand school is long and for me exausting. I at some point made a committment to do the best I could. If I ever I wanted to know something or learn something, I would get a book on the subject. I have done pretty well teaching myself to program.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 22, 2012 9:37:53 AM PDT
*Or, in your case, not.

Based on what evidence?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 22, 2012 9:50:16 AM PDT
*But teachers are the problem...

Nope, I have never met a bad teacher. Some easier some harder but none bad. Possibly 1st grade but that far back is fuzzy. I think teachers have the solution if they are unleashed and allowed the be the professionals they are.

The biggest problem I had in school was other kids. I think at a minimum we can get the bullies and trouble makers out of the way so that do want to learn can.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 22, 2012 9:51:29 AM PDT
Believe me there are plenty of bad teachers. A good example is a teacher who is more concerned about rules and regulations than about getting the subject matter across. There are LOTS of those kind of bad teachers.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 22, 2012 10:00:37 AM PDT
*Currently the school district builds the school which is a separate cost than operating cost. Where does the money come from for the (private?) schools for the buildings? A student's share of the educational dollar cannot include building costs because that would greatly increase the costs of education or be insufficient for all these competing schools.

That is a real problem. Does any part of the private economy work that way? Each child is entitled to the get their full cost of education. You can also work out arrangmentw where the private schools can lease space from public schools or they just have to get creative for classroom space.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 22, 2012 3:15:10 PM PDT
Your posts.

Posted on Jun 22, 2012 6:20:11 PM PDT
neonpisces says:
Education in the USA is singularly important, and deserves a discussion of its own.

My view is that we've given up on education and are now warehousing children, enabling their parents to work. This is a huge subject and could be an Amazon Forum in and of itself.

However the OP was about prisons. To whit:

> Why are spendthrift conservatives so excited about putting people in prison?

Because they also want to privatize the prisons.

Prisons aren't profitable without prisoners.

Discuss?

Posted on Jun 22, 2012 6:32:24 PM PDT
And it's better to educate people than to indoctrinate them.
Critical thinking is especially important.

Lack of critical thinking skills is responsible for the really bizarre ideas being put forward by the Useful Idyots on these threads.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 22, 2012 6:50:47 PM PDT
M. Daniel says:
neonpisces says: "Why are spendthrift conservatives so excited about putting people in prison? Because they also want to privatize the prisons.
Prisons aren't profitable without prisoners."

We already discussed this. It is based on the false premise that conservatives are excited about putting people in prison. Only a small percentage of prisons are private. Government prisons need prisoners also for the employees to keep their jobs. So, the entire premise is based on faulty assumptions and based on hostility toward profit even when it can reduce governmental costs.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 22, 2012 7:23:44 PM PDT
neonpisces says:
I don't think so.

Privatization of anything depends on perceived need and the ability to fulfill that need. We have a history of commercial enterprises that exist because of a created sense of need.

Privatization of prisons may involve a small portion of such institutions. However it is a growing industry - particularly in the area of juvenile incarceration.

We are moving forward with the corporate-statist agenda of privatizing social policy. There is no possibility of debate about this.

The question about impact on the incarcerated, as well as who can expect to be incarcerated, is going to become very interesting. What does a for-profit national security state look like?

We're beginning to find out.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 22, 2012 8:05:25 PM PDT
M. Daniel says:
neonpisces says: "We are moving forward with the corporate-statist agenda of privatizing social policy. There is no possibility of debate about this."

Wanna bet? Privatization of prisons has occurred because of governments seeking less expensive solutions to the growing prison population. When the prison population declines the government is not stuck with unneeded buildings and state employees with salaries and benefits. It is like cities seeking cheaper solutions to garbage pick-up and government agencies putting janitorial services out to bid to private agencies. It is not a "corporate-statist agenda" as much as seeking to reduce costs. I have been involved in my school's decision to hire outside janitorial and cafe services. There was reluctance to get rid of current employees and hire people with lower benefits, but it was better than cutting classes or raising tuition.

Are you opposed to government social services being given to private agencies like Planned Parenthood?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 22, 2012 8:37:24 PM PDT
neonpisces says:
> Are you opposed to government social services being given to private agencies like Planned Parenthood?

Assuming that this is the case, absolutely.

And so should you be.

Anytime that a social service is given over to a private concern that depends on social pathology in order to exist is a cause for concern.
[Add comment]
Add your own message to the discussion
To insert a product link use the format: [[ASIN:ASIN product-title]] (What's this?)
Prompts for sign-in
 


 

This discussion

Discussion in:  Politics forum
Participants:  41
Total posts:  298
Initial post:  Jun 18, 2012
Latest post:  Jun 26, 2012

New! Receive e-mail when new posts are made.
Tracked by 1 customer

Search Customer Discussions