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Customer Discussions > Politics forum

What is the best thing about Marxism?


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Showing 251-275 of 333 posts in this discussion
In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 7:42:03 AM PDT
Mickey says:
Why? Mostly capitalism and immense natural resources. But how does that disprove my point about social class?

I do appreciate the freedoms we have in this country. I just don't like people telling me the U.S. is sacred and may not be questioned; the U.S. is perfect and there's no injustice in this country.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 7:48:09 AM PDT
*The point here seems to be that the U.S. is sacred and nothing critical of the U.S. may be said. Why?

No, you can criticize the country or the poltical leaders or their policies you can also defend leaders and policies that you do like. The problem with the Vietnam war was there was no political will to win victory was not defined and the enemy effectivly used the political process for victory.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 7:52:44 AM PDT
*
Al Gore was a good example of this. He got the call, did his duty, but he must have drawn a heavy sigh of relief when he was assigned to a journalism post with mainly a desk assignment. His strongly anti-war senator father, Albert Gore, Sr. must have also been relieved at this.

Considering he was from a family with political leadership his service was intended as enhancing his career in politics. At one time Democrats were the defense party Wilson, FDR and JFK all very strong for the military. The military industral complex was build by Roosevelt. Kennedy too enhanced his career with his service. Many times there is just no substitut for military leadership.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 7:54:06 AM PDT
Mickey says:
Of course I have 1st Amendment rights, that's not the point - the point is, some posters attack any criticism or questioning of the U.S.

That wasn't the only problem with Vietnam - you're merely reciting the conservative party line. Ideologues are always uncomfortable with complexity, but history is complex.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 8:04:39 AM PDT
*I returned from Vietnam with anger at conservatives and liberals alike - and it has never completely subsided.

Going to war can do that to you. Being on the ground can be fustrating and pointless. Think of the guys who were in the trenches of WWI in the most pointless and futile war.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 8:08:33 AM PDT
*Yet the disparity in wealth and the divide between the rich and poor has never been as big a gulf as it is today. Mainly brought about by Reagan and his successors.

But since the 80s most people are three times as wealthy. More people have more. Many products are not common that were not even available to the rich. More people have more. Most of us can fathom living as we did in the 70s or before.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 8:12:32 AM PDT
*your failure in understanding what Reagan did is because you have no clue about tax shelters of the time. The wealthy were not paying the high rates you think they were. Not even close.

I can really believe anyone that lived throught the 70s and 80s and saw the 80s as a time of decline. Yes, the economy was tough for the first half. How many new businesses were founded in the 80s and grew to be giants how many new products came out? Just think in the 60s the new thing was the transistor radio. What other new technology that was invented and became widly available. Most of the things people started to afford were invented in the 20s the washing machine refrigerator even the television was around in the 20s.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 8:52:00 AM PDT
*William Ayres > Alice Palmer > Quentin Young

What would we say about a Republican who went to a far right church of christian identity?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 8:55:38 AM PDT
*I am asking you to consider the facts of obama's ties to radical Marxists and to explain how they *don't* paint a picture of Obama as a Marxist himself.

Republicans get the racism charge for much less. Think a Republican would get very far if they started their career working for David Duke? Just like chreistian identity is a cover for racism on the far right, liberation theology is a form of Marxism.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 8:59:50 AM PDT
*Marxism was discredited as soon as the Bolsheviks started in creating hierarchies in the new USSR, 'round 1920

Then why do so many people still follow many of the tenants? Why is socialism called foward and cutting government called backward? Why is there this call for that next program that next regulation and a never ending growth of government?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 9:01:19 AM PDT
*If you have facts proving Barack Obama is a Marxist, present them and I'll consider them. That would consist of direct quotes advocating the elimination of private property, profit and religion.

Will you also be as open to Republicans who say they are not racists or out the get the poor? You should be just as angry at those who make such charges.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 9:09:53 AM PDT
Mickey says:
Joseph,

I'm apolitical - I'm neither conservative nor liberal. I'm skeptical of conservatives and liberals alike.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 9:35:28 AM PDT
*Communism in China seems to be doing a much better job of managing there economy than the idiots in Washington..

How much do we really know about the country. I would rather be living here than there. Are they really communist, yes they have all kinds of state owned businesses that are inefficient but they don't even provide the basics for the people that live there.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 9:41:43 AM PDT
*If it were only a secret conviction and didn't effect his governing, why would you care?

It does affect his governing. It is the increase of government power and attacks on parts of the economy. It is choosing people for the EPA that what to oppress enegery producers. It is the use of government equity for sources of enegry that he likes. There are more and more people in business who think the government is agains them.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 9:44:38 AM PDT
*How could it not effect his governing? Doesn't Obama pander to the middle and talk out both sides of his both as most American politicians do?

Obama care and Dodd Frank. One of the major ways that Marx advocated controlling the economy was greater government control of finance. Health care is also a way and incentive for government to contol more and more personal behavior. Now you can see all the people on the left all worried about what we eat and we are seeing more and more controls on food because we will have to pay for it in the end.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 9:45:01 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 11, 2012 9:49:25 AM PDT
Mickey says:
That's not Marxism. And you don't even know for a fact he is a Marxist. "Where there's smoke there's fire" sounds good, but it's not much of an argument.

I get the point Joseph - you're conservative and you hate liberals. Is there any more to it than that?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 9:52:37 AM PDT
Ryan says:
Joseph M. Creaney says:
*Communism in China
+++++++++++++++++++
I was reading wiki on socialism yesterday. It is really all over the place with maybe 100's of versions. Someone quoted earlier the death tolls under Mao and Stalin etc. Seems to me these are nothing to do with the theory of communism. If you bungle the implementation you might have bad consequences..

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 9:57:34 AM PDT
*I'm apolitical - I'm neither conservative nor liberal. I'm skeptical of conservatives and liberals alike.

I really have a hard time thinking you don't have some philosophical point of view. There are two opposing philsophies in the country one of increased governemnt and collectivism and one of less.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 10:02:30 AM PDT
*That's not Marxism. And you don't even know for a fact he is a Marxist. "Where there's smoke there's fire" sounds good, but it's not much of an argument.

Marxism has some specific ideas. Hostility to profit, a desire for collectivism and central planning over market forces of supply and demand.

*I get the point Joseph - you're conservative and you hate liberals. Is there any more to it than that?

I disagree with Marxist ideas and think that he did great harm to traditional liberalism and individualism. I think the most dangerous idea that he injected that was profit was a form of theft and evil.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 10:06:18 AM PDT
Ryan says:
Joseph M. Creaney's post:
There are two opposing philsophies in the country one of increased governemnt and collectivism and one of less.
+++++++++++++++++
My philosophy would be effective government, less government that achieved a lot more. That quit doing things that were unnecessary like wars and fighting drugs.
Seems that all the people who mention the nanny state like the war on drugs. They are the same people who like talking about freedom..
The hypocrisy is sickening..

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 10:11:21 AM PDT
*I was reading wiki on socialism yesterday. It is really all over the place with maybe 100's of versions. Someone quoted earlier the death tolls under Mao and Stalin etc. Seems to me these are nothing to do with the theory of communism. If you bungle the implementation you might have bad consequences..

There are all kinds of versions of socialism and the ideas are older than Marx. Many of the ideas of socialism can be found in the Catholic monastic movments where worldy pleasures were denied or limited. That was from a spiritual perspectivwe in that worldy goods can only give the illusion to true happiness.

The basic idea of socialism is equality of material positions. it is the idea that because the wealthy have so much they cause poverty. The important aspect of Marxism is that profit is exploitation and a form of theft. That is the the capitalist gets rich from stealing a protion of the value of a laboror to get rich. He also didn't like supply and demand and thought that a rationaly planned economy would be more effective.

Yes, Marx drew a great deal from Hegel in his dialectic where social foces conflict and a new synthisis is created. Marx created a theory that capitalism was unsustaiable. His ideas have permiated the culture in ideas such as free markets create monopolies and wealth concentration. This idea that more central control is progress when it is going backward.

In the end socialism is the use of force to guide and mold a society toward some ideal. As soon as force or thereats are taken away socialism fails or ceases to exist.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 10:12:51 AM PDT
Mickey says:
I'm political to the extent I reject totalitarianism and feel there must be some regulation, although I can't say exactly how much. I do feel some dislike for conservatives and liberals alike. I believe they both came out of Vietnam with blood on their hands and have spent all the years since covering it up. I believe they're both narrow-minded and intolerant. I believe they both use ideology as a substitute for thinking, since thinking can be difficult and unpleasant. I believe they both claim altruism as a cover for selfish motives. I believe neither are as intellectual and logical as they claim ("The stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt" - Bertrand Russell). I believe politics is disgusting and stupid - it consists mostly of adults squabbling like 3 year olds, slimeballs lining their pockets, and professional liars talking out both sides of their mouths.

So, I am neither conservative nor liberal.

Posted on Jun 11, 2012 10:14:43 AM PDT
[Deleted by the author on Jun 11, 2012 10:27:28 AM PDT]

Posted on Jun 11, 2012 10:16:24 AM PDT
*I was reading wiki on socialism yesterday. It is really all over the place with maybe 100's of versions. Someone quoted earlier the death tolls under Mao and Stalin etc. Seems to me these are nothing to do with the theory of communism. If you bungle the implementation you might have bad consequences..

There are all kinds of versions of socialism and the ideas are older than Marx. Many of the ideas of socialism can be found in the Catholic monastic movments where worldy pleasures were denied or limited. That was from a spiritual perspectivwe in that worldy goods can only give the illusion to true happiness.

The basic idea of socialism is equality of material positions. it is the idea that because the wealthy have so much they cause poverty. The important aspect of Marxism is that profit is exploitation and a form of theft. That is the the capitalist gets rich from stealing a protion of the value of a laboror to get rich. He also didn't like supply and demand and thought that a rationaly planned economy would be more effective.

Yes, Marx drew a great deal from Hegel in his dialectic where social foces conflict and a new synthisis is created. Marx created a theory that capitalism was unsustaiable. His ideas have permiated the culture in ideas such as free markets create monopolies and wealth concentration. This idea that more central control is progress when it is going backward.

In the end socialism is the use of force to guide and mold a society toward some ideal. As soon as force or thereats are taken away socialism fails or ceases to exist.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 10:22:20 AM PDT
*My philosophy would be effective government, less government that achieved a lot more. That quit doing things that were unnecessary like wars and fighting drugs.
Seems that all the people who mention the nanny state like the war on drugs. They are the same people who like talking about freedom..
The hypocrisy is sickening..

We can debate when we use military force. It is funny that fun drugs are seen as a cause of liberty. They are in effect poisons and we can do far more to have drug freedom by getting rid of the FDA or making a voulinary program. We can't try an experimental cancer drug but we can shoot up.

A great deal of our freedom comes from miliary action and having miliary power. Access to low cost good and to foreign markets are made possible by open trade routs. There is a real interest to protect american investmetn from possible theft and nationalization of other governments. Even the constution give the US government the role in protecting shipping lanes and to support the laws of nations.
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Discussion in:  Politics forum
Participants:  31
Total posts:  333
Initial post:  Jun 5, 2012
Latest post:  Jul 15, 2012

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