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Gay marriage, does or country progress or further decline?

Discussion moved to this forum by Amazon on May 12, 2012 1:28:10 PM PDT.


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In reply to an earlier post on May 12, 2012 12:19:33 AM PDT
Richard C. says:
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Posted on May 12, 2012 12:30:44 AM PDT
Pookie 3.14 says:
For those "Christians" who site the bible as reasoning for this bashing. Read nothing but what Jesus himself did and said and you will find the true meaning of the bible... it's a book of dos not don'ts. The biggest lesson is LOVE, if Jesus could hang around with prostitutes and tax men and still love them... you can stand being around a homosexual.

In reply to an earlier post on May 12, 2012 12:30:57 AM PDT
NeoPaganBaby says:
Richard: "So they should be forced to live by your pagan, non-religious beliefs?"
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First of all a "pagan non-religious belief" is self-contradictory. Second, the idea that anyone is *forced* to believe something because they're *not* forced to believe something else is ridiculous.

In reply to an earlier post on May 12, 2012 12:44:51 AM PDT
NeoPaganBaby says:
Richard says: "There's a lot of behavior described in the Bible, good and bad. Because it's reported in the Bible doesn't imply it's appropriate, only that it happened."
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Yes, but consider all the inappropriate things ordered by God himself. For example killing rape victims for not preventing it, requirements that women marry their rapist in cases where they're *not* stoned to death. The price to buy a wife from her father is specified by God himself. Was it any more appropriate for God to kill all the firstborn Egyptian babies than for Herod to kill all the firstborn Jewish ones?

In reply to an earlier post on May 12, 2012 12:48:27 AM PDT
Richard C. says:
You're right Pookie - Jesus hung around with Prostitutes and tax men. After all, He came to call sinners to repentance. He told the people ready to stone the prostitute that the one without sin should throw the first stone. But then he told the prostitute to go and sin no more. He taught love, but also expected repentance. Pro-gay people either ignore, or conveniently forget that part.
For the record, I don't hate anyone - homosexual or otherwise.

In reply to an earlier post on May 12, 2012 12:49:59 AM PDT
NeoPaganBaby says:
Richard: "This whole argument on gay marriage separates people based on whether they believe in Jesus Christ or not.."
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How so? What did Christ say about gay marriage?

In reply to an earlier post on May 12, 2012 12:52:05 AM PDT
Pookie 3.14 says:
Repentance is private, and personal... and cannot AND SHOULD NOT (even Jesus agreed) be FORCED.

That is assuming that homosexuality is a choice and even can be something that needs repentance.

In reply to an earlier post on May 12, 2012 12:55:22 AM PDT
Richard C. says:
Oh Neopagan .... so many mistaken views, so little time. First of all, you can question all-mighty God if you wish, but I do not. But God wasn't the one who decided that final plague on Egypt, as you mentioned. The Pharaoh's own decision on the Jews made that decision. Certainly, God carried it out ... but it was Pharaoh that caused it to happen. And I don't consider myself (or YOU) to be on the level to question the Creator.

In reply to an earlier post on May 12, 2012 12:55:38 AM PDT
NeoPaganBaby says:
Richard "[Jesus] taught love, but also expected repentance. Pro-gay people either ignore, or conveniently forget that part."
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And you conveniently ignore or forget that Jesus never distinctly addressed a gay person about *anything*.

In reply to an earlier post on May 12, 2012 12:58:14 AM PDT
NeoPaganBaby says:
Richard: "And I don't consider myself (or YOU) to be on the level to question the Creator."
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Agreed. Additionally I don't consider an ancient book of myths to be on the level to *define* the Creator.

In reply to an earlier post on May 12, 2012 1:05:09 AM PDT
Pookie 3.14 says:
The message was love and peace, yes the old testament and some of the writings in the new testament tended towards fire, brimstone and a wrathful God... the actual message that Jesus was about love, giving voice to those that had none and helping the lives of those around you. Whether you believe in him or not... that message is pretty great.

In reply to an earlier post on May 12, 2012 1:06:24 AM PDT
Richard C. says:
Well, that's where we can respectfully disagree. You consider the Bible an ancient book of myths, and I consider it the Word of God. We both sleep well in our beliefs, so we'll see. But it does seem like you've spent some time studying Jesus ... and yet you consider Him and the Word a bunch of myths. I find that curious.

Posted on May 12, 2012 1:09:07 AM PDT
Nightshade says:
The pharaoh did not force God to carry out a threat. God chose to do that.

I can threaten harm on someone if they don't do what I wish them to. If I follow through on that action because they don't stop their actions, it is my choice. I made the decision to cause bodily harm. It is all on me.

Regardless of the situation, it is the one who follows through with a threat that has to take responsibility for their action. Not pawn it off on someone else. I certainly would not want to believe my God would be so inclined.

I hate this passing off self responsibility.

In reply to an earlier post on May 12, 2012 1:14:53 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 12, 2012 1:17:54 AM PDT
Nightshade says:
Regarding the bible, you can not accept it as a word for word dictation of God's words. It was originally written in Hebrew and Aramic, later translated to Latin. It has been translated numerous times. There are words and meanings that don't translate well if at all.

For example, Mary wasn't a virgin. there is no word for a young women, so it was translated as virgin.

Man has changed the words. The bible can only be accepted in generalities. Studying it word for word for word is silly.

Posted on May 12, 2012 1:16:56 AM PDT
Pookie 3.14 says:
The word Abba does not mean father or son... it means "That thing that happens when a 2 year old climbs all over his father".

Posted on May 12, 2012 1:23:05 AM PDT
D. Kursave says:
As a Christian man i just want to put it out there that no god of mine is going to condem gays from marrying while letting kim kardashian have 72 days of marriage. And if, at the end of the world, heaven comes to smite those who love thier same-sex partners as i love my wife, then i will stand and fight the armies of heaven to defend those who have done nothing wrong.

In reply to an earlier post on May 12, 2012 1:23:59 AM PDT
NeoPaganBaby says:
Richard says: "But it does seem like you've spent some time studying Jesus ... and yet you consider Him and the Word a bunch of myths"
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I was speaking of the Bible, not God, not Jesus. There are plausible theories that Jesus is a composite character, built from other mythological beings. I happen to believe he was a very enlightened person who actually lived around 2000 years ago.

As for "the Word." Yes, I believe it contains a lot of mythology. I find it curious that anyone (even after they "study Jesus") could pick up a book that starts with the story of a 6 day creation, a rib-woman and a talking snake and and consider it anything *but* mythology.

I don't believe the Bible is *only* mythology. It's a mixture of mythology, history, early Hebrew patriotic propaganda, some beautiful allegories and undeniably some universal truth. I simply don't believe the Bible is sufficient to *define* who God is.

Posted on May 12, 2012 1:24:04 AM PDT
Richard C. says:
Nightshade - I'm sorry, but your assertion that Mary wasn't a virgin is laughable. The Bible speaks of virgins repeatedly, starting with the first book of the Bible in chapter 24. While that specific reference isn't concerning Mary, please read the book of Luke 1:26 - 38. Mary is told she will have a child, and her reply is "how can this be? since I am a virgin". Don't know how much more plain this can be.

In reply to an earlier post on May 12, 2012 1:26:45 AM PDT
Richard C. says:
Very well, but since Jesus continually quoted the Word Himself, and considered it the Word of God, I don't know how you can separate them.

Posted on May 12, 2012 1:28:25 AM PDT
D. Kursave says:
@richard But the bible of today and the "word" are differant. The bible is a document, paraphrased and re-written hundres of times by priests in a language that normal people cant read...

Posted on May 12, 2012 1:29:21 AM PDT
Pookie 3.14 says:
Please remember that Christianity is NOT a western religion, and should never be interpreted as such.

In reply to an earlier post on May 12, 2012 1:30:34 AM PDT
Richard C. says:
That seems rather arrogant to me, D. Kursave. YOU decide what is holy and what is not, not God? And I have to tell you ... any who fight against the armies of God will lose. Guaranteed.

I completely understand the point about gay marriage. If I was not a believer in Christ and the Bible, I would probably feel the same way. I'm not for "discriminating" against anyone. But my Christian faith teaches that homosexuality is wrong, and as long as I live, I will follow that instruction.

In reply to an earlier post on May 12, 2012 1:33:43 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 12, 2012 1:35:03 AM PDT
Pookie 3.14 says:
Your Christianity also teaches you that getting married more than once is wrong (Jesus actually said that one) women wearing pants is wrong, working on the Sabbath is wrong (OH going to a store, or restaurant is contributing to others having to work... and counts as YOU working) do I need to continue?

You can't say "Homosexuality is wrong" if you don't add these other everyday items, otherwise you are picking and choosing.

In reply to an earlier post on May 12, 2012 1:33:57 AM PDT
D. Kursave says:
I would rather die defending what is good and right than live forever in a false heaven reserved for those that a false god deems worthy. And that is spoke as a believer.

Also... the funny thing is that even if equal marriage is legalized, that still doesnt pervert your religion because your church still doesnt have to marry same sex couples.

In reply to an earlier post on May 12, 2012 1:35:28 AM PDT
Richard C. says:
Of course the Bible has been re-written, paraphrased (in some editions) repeatedly over the centuries - but the New International version is still extremely accurate to the original texts.
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Discussion in:  Politics forum
Participants:  86
Total posts:  429
Initial post:  May 10, 2012
Latest post:  May 17, 2012

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