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Question regarding "man-made climate change"

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Initial post: Jan 21, 2013 6:51:52 AM PST
Here's a question for liberals. Let's assume that man-made climate change is absolutely true. If that's the case, why don't liberals personally act more responsibly to save the world? In other words, sure, maybe you can't pass strict laws because of the dastardly Republicans who hate clean air and clean water. But why don't you personally care more about the Earth, aka Gaia?

For example, why is it that liberals drive SUVs? It may be more convenient for you, but is convenience more important than saving the world? Why is it that liberals go on road trips? You mean you driving to Yellowstone with your family trumps the life of every living person on Earth? Seattle just set the world record for largest snowball fight. They trucked in that snow. Now, we can all agree that Seattle is a predominantly liberal city -- so they felt that winning some meaningless prize is more important than the entire world????

I mean, let's be honest here. If you guys REALLY believed in man-made global warming, shouldn't you, uh, actually be behaving like you do? Instead, you're like Al Gore, sitting around in homes with gigantic carbon footprints, flying on airplanes that burn hundreds of gallons of gas an hour, and so on ...but it's OK because you drive a Prius AND you compost. Sometimes. Really? Really? What will the dead polar bears say? How can you look your children in the eyes at night?

Posted on Jan 21, 2013 7:13:58 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 21, 2013 7:19:45 AM PST
I drive an SUV. It got 34mpg last road trip. It's also is are only car in my family. Last year we put 10000 miles on the car. I prefer to bike or walk when in town and my 3 year old son likes to take his scooter.

Nothing wrong with taking personal responsibility and reducing consumption. You save money that way. Good old fashion conservative values.

I would also never buy a Japanese car.

Posted on Jan 21, 2013 7:20:25 AM PST
Oh, I have no problem with someone choosing to reduce gas consumption, please don't misunderstand. My point is that liberals ACTUALLY believe that they are "saving the world" and that the use of fossil fuels will literally destroy the world. So if that's the case then they should act like it, shouldn't they? Because they are happy to use the image of "rising sea levels will flood our cities and it will be like Waterworld where we aimlessly search for land, shriek!!" or "awww, wittle powar bear drowning because you wuv gas" to forward their agenda. But why don't they go "holy [bleep], I just drove 200 miles to a nearby Wiccan gathering in my car! What was I thinking???" and voluntarily choose to NOT DRIVE AT ALL? I mean, what's more important if you really believe that we're killing the Earth, your convenience or the entire world?

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 7:26:22 AM PST
Understanding its a global problem means you need global solutions. Liberals as a group in America could cut there consumption down to alsost nill and we would not make much if a dent. Making sure we covert to clean coal wind and solar and higher CAFE standards worldwide make big dents.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 7:35:23 AM PST
Ah, but that's not a reasonable argument. Because, on the one hand, when we are told we must use CFLs or buy hybrid cars, no liberal says "oh, by the way, even if we do this, it won't change anything." So you can't have it both ways and say "oh, well, even if I had zero consumption, that won't change anything." And moreover, you mean to say that unless and until EVERYONE changes, you refuse to personally, even if you think it will save the world? How odd.

Posted on Jan 21, 2013 7:43:45 AM PST
S. Evans says:
As usual, Conservative, you make blanket assumptions about the "average liberal," who of course exists only in your mind. Our small suburban city is fairly evenly split between conservatives and liberals. I base this not only on the various political signs during elections, but also from having worked on a couple of political campaigns here. Both our state senator and state rep are Republican, for instance, as well as half of the city council.

We have had a recycling center for several years. Two years ago, the city instituted curb-side recycling. You just dump your stuff in there, roll it to the curb, and they pick it up once a week, along with your regular trash. There was some grumbling (oddly enough, from the conservatives) about how futile and non-cost effective this was going to be. However, time has proven them wrong. We actually *make* money on it now. The recycled materials are re-sold. The city is paying half of its former landfill fees. And now nearly every household puts their "recyclotron" out at the curb on trash day.

Even though this is an older community (founded in the 1800s), nearly every street has a painted bike lane. They are heavily used. Every time people come to visit, they remark on how they've never seen so many people out walking and biking and jogging. The city promotes gardening with native plants, rain gardening, and discourages the use of pesticides. My yard is a tiny microcosm of what can be done on a small scale -- we have dozens of native species, a bee hive, a compost barrel, veggies planted in amongst ornamentals (even in the front yard), a rain garden, a tiny pond, and at least seven species of non-human mammals who visit and call our little place home. We have deer and owls and hawks, in the middle of a suburban/urban area. Inside, we replaced all the incandescents with the more efficient bulbs, spent several thousand dollars on new energy-efficient windows, and put in a new energy-efficient furnace last year. We're just typical people, doing the same things the rest of our neighbors are doing. We don't just talk the talk, we walk it too.

Sorry to disappoint you, but your blanket assumptions are just that -- assumptions with not much proximity to reality.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 7:49:01 AM PST
DEEZUS says:
In my city we have a lot of bike trails and I do a lot of biking and walking to places when I can. I do own a truck, but that's because the winters here are really harsh and I need my truck to get back and forth to work. I only use the truck in the winter though. I recycle and I use CFLs. My apartment doesn't leave a very large carbon footprint (the vast majority of us aren't as wealthy as Al Gore...so we can't very well sit around in those types of homes). I try my best to eat locally grown organic foods. If everyone did what I do, we may not even be talking about global warming as an issue. I don't know what else you expect a person to do, I can only account for myself.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 7:52:21 AM PST
S. Evans: You seem to have failed to grasp my point. I don't care whether you recycle or not. It's irrelevant. Shouldn't you say "wait, why are we using plastics AT ALL?" I mean, plastics kill little birds and fish, they pollute the world and they supposedly don't biodegrade for over a million years or something. In other words, you seem to decide that recycling or having a painted bike lane means you care. That's great. But you honestly believe that we are killing the world, right? So why don't you act like it? The painted bike lane means that you MAY bike if you wish. But it doesn't mean that you DO. Why don't you get rid of your car? Who cares that you rain garden? Why don't you grow your own food, rather than truck in food, which uses fossil fuels? Don't you care about the planet?

In other words, you and other liberals decided that "hey, since I said that composting means you care about the world, it does ...so if you don't compost then you want the earth to die!" But if some other guy comes along and says "yeah, you may be composting but you drove to work today" you're allowed -- as the liberal who gets to make the rules -- to say "so? That's acceptable!" Whereas if you were actually following your beliefs, you'd have to say "omg, you're right!" and immediately sell your car because that's what is important. For the children.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 8:01:46 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 21, 2013 8:02:26 AM PST
Everything me and the other liberals spoke of here have made gradual changes that EVERYONE gets effected by and will grow into major impacts.

Higher fuel efficency SUV's, the local food movement and expanding of farmers markets, curbside weekly recycling, bicycle friendly towns, etc.

It's not an all or nothing proposition it is community wide simple changes that work in our modern life that make a difference.

Posted on Jan 21, 2013 8:02:25 AM PST
See, you guys are demonstrating my point entirely. You want other people to live like yourself, which I get. So you set "what is comfortable for ME" as the benchmark for "saving the world." In other words, let's say that I don't compost but you do. Then you go "shaaaame, shaaaame, look at this chart that shows that in twenty years New York City will be under water because of you!!" And that is used to convince or force me to compost. OK. And then you drive home in your truck. But if I go "hey, wait a second ...why are you driving a truck?" the response is "shut up, you! It would be unreasonable to tell me not to drive a car or truck! I would never tell anyone they can't drive a car at all!" Uh ...why not? I thought that using fossil fuels killed the Ear -- "SHUT UP!" Oh, OK.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 8:05:40 AM PST
DEEZUS says:
who is saying "shaaaame, shaaaame, look at this chart that shows that in twenty years New York City will be under water because of you!!"?

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 8:09:18 AM PST
DEEZUS: Oh, come now. Surely you jest.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 8:09:38 AM PST
Do u recycle? Do u have cfl's? Is you car more efficient than yours from 20 years ago? Do u buy anything from local farmers?

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 8:13:08 AM PST
DEEZUS says:
point to the person who is saying it. I think we should all do our part, but I'm not gonna try to force you. I think that if automobile companies can make cars that pollute less, then they should do that. If you're that guy who decides to gun his engine just to be oppositional, then that doesn't speak of your conservative beliefs...it speaks of you being a dbag.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 8:15:18 AM PST
Ah, but those are irrelevant questions because, once again, your benchmark is "do you act like me?" Whereas the reality if you were being honest is your benchmark should be simply "do you use fossil fuels or not?" In other words, apparently you are guilty of destroying the world and killing mankind. Perhaps you are a tad less guilty than some other person, sure, but you're guilty. You killed the polar bears. When the sea waters rise, that's your fault. When people die, it's because of you.

See, the left sets up this fraudulent case where "if you don't act the way I want you to, then we die ...but if you do, then magically the tide waters ebb! But don't ask me to do anything that would impinge on my liberal lifestyle." OMG! For reals??

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 8:17:30 AM PST
S. Evans says:
Conservative: "Blah blah (doesn't read or comprehend) blah blah. Why don't you grow your own food, rather than truck in food, which uses fossil fuels?"

Apparently you just skipped over the bit about my gardens.... with veggies. Oh let's see. I use cloth grocery sacks rather than plastic. What produce I can't grow, I buy at the Local Harvest. I make our meals from scratch to both be healthier and to cut down on the plastics and other packaging materials that prepared food comes in. Like Deezus, I walk or bike when practical. My car is 8 years old and gets 33mpg on the highway, 25 in town. I put less than 500 miles/month on it. My husband's car is 12 years old and although it doesn't get the same mileage as mine, it's acceptable. He puts less than 1000 miles/month on it. Again, we are not much different than our neighbors. The lady next door drives a Prius and recycles. I don't know her political persuasion. The lady on the other side drives a nice Porsche SUV and doesn't recycle. Don't know her political flavor either. I am an idealist, but I'm also not so impractical as to think that the low-carbon lifestyle we are trying to live is going to make a huge dent overall. Even if everyone chipped in and did the same as we do, I believe the climate change horse is already out of the barn and isn't going back in.

So anything else you'd like to point at in your failed attempt to point out liberal hypocrisy?

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 8:19:06 AM PST
S. Evans: It's funny because you made fun of me for saying you truck in food and then one sentence later you say you "buy at the Local Harvest" and I'm sure they don't truck that produce in. But I guess "blah blah (doesn't comprehend)" is faster to write?

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 8:19:40 AM PST
No it's fundemnental changes liberals pushed for. Things that both liberals and conservatives do because it has been implemented as part of everyday life.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 8:19:45 AM PST
S. Evans says:
Conservative: "See, the left sets up this fraudulent case where "if you don't act the way I want you to, then we die ...but if you do, then magically the tide waters ebb! But don't ask me to do anything that would impinge on my liberal lifestyle." OMG! For reals?? "

Now there's the first honest thing I've seen from you.... yes, this *is* a fraudulent case. And it is you who is setting it up, not "the left."

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 8:21:04 AM PST
I walk the talk. I drive a hybrid and combine trips. I have a well insulated house and painted the roof white to help reflect light back into space instead of letting it turn into heat. It also saves big on cooling costs.

And I flip off Hummer drivers.

Posted on Jan 21, 2013 8:25:29 AM PST
By the way, you still don't get it. You keep on saying "oh, my car is 8 years old, so you can tell I'm not into consumption and I only drive 500 miles/month which is way less than most people." So? The point, again, is: if an action can be positioned as killing the Earth or saving the Earth, then why is it that the line for acceptable behavior is "what is comfortable for liberals"? In other words, let's use stereotypes. Republicans are baaaad bad people who drive big trucks and throw away their garbage and punch out walruses, right? And if they just stopped using incandescent lightbulbs or bought hybrids, then they would be doing the right thing! Because fossil fuels and so on destroy the planet. But why is it that driving 500 miles/month doesn't destroy the planet? "Well, it does, but ...that's OK." Oh, OK. Wait, what? "I mean, it's OK because it's less than what you drive." Sure, but isn't it still bad? "Well, sure, but ...I mean, it's not possible to live without driving A LITTLE." So your convenience trumps the planet's health? "No, I mean ...well, do YOU compost? Because I do!" Oh, OK.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 8:28:28 AM PST
ErikR says:
"By the way, you still don't get it."

Oh, we get it, you're setting up an absolutist, strawman argument that no one here ascribes to and then taking people to task for not adhering to it. While you might think that you've "scored one" everyone else is just shaking their heads.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 8:28:43 AM PST
S. Evans says:
You know their cheese has slipped off their cracker when they start arguing with themselves.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 8:30:31 AM PST
S. Evans: That's a very funny way of avoiding the argument when you cannot win it. You are very clever.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 8:31:49 AM PST
ErikR: So in summary, your position is "yes, you must do what I say in order to 'save the planet' even if it is uncomfortable for you, but asking me to do something that follows my own beliefs but is uncomfortable for me is unnecessary and a strawman."
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Discussion in:  Politics forum
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Initial post:  Jan 21, 2013
Latest post:  May 27, 2013

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