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Customer Discussions > Politics forum

Letting everyone see what guns can do


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Showing 1-25 of 74 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Dec 24, 2012 3:34:20 PM PST
Olaf1/6 says:
I have mixed feelings about this and I am sure many of you do as well, but I am throwing it out there anyway.

Someone had suggested that one of the parents of those young children volunteer to show a picture of what a weapon fired into a six year old's body looks like. In other words, do an 'Emmett Till' to gather support which would scream out enough is enough. Emmett Till was a 14 year old African-American who was brutally murdered In Mississippi in 1955 because someone said he had flirted with a white woman. One eye had been gouged out, he was shot in the head, and after having a 70 pound cotton gin fan wrapped around his neck, tossed into the Talachachie. When they found him he was bloated and barely recognizable. His mother, once she had his body flown back to Chicago, had an open casket public service to show just how brutal life was for someone with a black skin. And by showing this barbarity in all of its ugliness, things began to change.

Would a parent of one of those murdered children be so disgusted with the gun culture that makes itself more important than caring for a loved one ----show the world just what Lanza did in those classroom? I do not know. I do not know if I could do it either

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 6:27:04 PM PST
freedom4all says:
OK Snow, how about pictures of car wrecks? I was the second car to arrive at a scene were three ladies were dead and a boy had compound injuries caused by a head-on crash by a drunk. The drunk had a bump on his forehead.

I should have taken pictures, don't you think?

Posted on Dec 24, 2012 6:45:38 PM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 6:48:05 PM PST
Olaf1/6 says:
We know what people look like in fatal car crashes. Comparing car deaths to gun deaths is a poor analogy.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 7:14:52 PM PST
freedom4all says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 7:19:36 PM PST
Olaf1/6 says:
A car crash is, in 9 out of ten times, an accident. A shooting is not an accident. Don't compare the two.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 7:27:04 PM PST
Snowman...It would be a Horrible sight to see what damage a weapon could do to the body of a 6 or 7 year old...BUT.. if it could be a wake up call that would lead to STRONGER gun laws it would serve it's purpose!!! Something has to be done to STOP THIS MADNESS!!

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 7:27:09 PM PST
Lientje says:
Snowman 3/4: It certainly took a lot of courage for Till's mother to do what she did. But it was important.

It still amazes me just how vile the South was during those days. It truly boggles the mind. And this is where our most
"Christian" of Christians live.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 7:31:44 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 24, 2012 7:32:54 PM PST
freedom4all says:
Do you mean that an accident is unintentional? Or just an unintentional result? I would hope you understand that every car wreck and crash is the result of someone violating a rule, regulation or law set by government for operation of one's vehicle on their highways.

If all rules, regulations or laws were obeyed 100 percent of the time, there would be no wrecks or crashes. There would not be 30,000+ Americans killed on the highways or 2,000+ innocent children slaughtered every year.

It is only by individual acts that people are killed on the highway. White-wash it any way you want, after all the government owns and operates them.

Posted on Dec 24, 2012 7:37:52 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 25, 2012 8:15:22 PM PST
DarthRad says:
I've seen what a hammer can do to a 15 year old girl's head.

Her teenage boyfriend did this to her.

I was the junior resident on the neurosurgery service then (back before I changed over to radiology), and the chief resident and I were called down to the ER stat as she was rolled in by the paramedics.

She had been intubated in the field, and as we examined her, it was obvious to us that she was already brain dead. Her cranium felt about as soft as a deflated soccer ball.

We ordered only a quick skull x-ray, nothing else, no CT, and this showed that her skull had been shattered into a hundred pieces. There were puncture wounds in the scalp, indicating the boyfriend had used the sharp end of the hammer also. He did not hit her face. That was intact. She had been a pretty girl.

I whispered to the chief resident that we should just do the clinical tests for brain death and declare her in the ER. He didn't say anything, but as I looked around, I realized that all the paramedics, the nurses, EVERYBODY in the ER was staring at the two of us, expecting us to do SOMETHING and SAVE this POOR GIRL.

The chief resident ordered her up to the OR.

As the junior resident, it was my job to shave her head and prep it for surgery. This was where I really got the never forgotten sensation of a human head that felt like a deflated soccer ball, shaving that hair off.

The chief resident stepped in after she had been prepped and draped. He made one small incision in her scalp. Brain matter immediately oozed out, like toothpaste under pressure. It looked like reddish white cream cheese.

He covered it up with a sponge and held it under pressure to keep more from oozing out.

"OK, We're done!" He announced, and then proceeded to stitch up the incision.

We left her on the ventilator for another day, long enough for the hospital to report her condition to the evening TV news as "critical and worsening".

The next day, we did the brain death criteria evaluation and declared her and took her off the ventilator.

Unlike most of you, unlike even most military veterans on this forum, I have personally witnessed the violent deaths of quite a few human beings, whether by cars (most often), ridiculously stupid accidents, guns, hammers, drugs, you name it. Some of these people died as the result of the actions of other people, doctors even (this includes major surgical operations which went sour), some died by their own hand through suicide or slow suicide (long term drug/alcohol abuse, etc.).

America has a violent culture, with or without assault rifles or guns.

I am not so naive as to believe that we live in such a safe world that the police will always be there to protect us from this violence. Safe, legal, and responsible ownership of guns will always be a part of American culture. That is just not going to change, and all of you out there should just quit hyperventilating about that.

Nancy Lanza letting her crazy son get hold of a semi-automatic assault rifle does not meet that criteria for safe and sane ownership.

And with those cheery thoughts, Merry Christmas to all of you

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 7:45:09 PM PST
freedom4all says:
Thanks DarthRad. Your post makes one stop for a moment and consider how precious life is.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 8:42:37 PM PST
Olaf1/6 says:
Gee, you make humans sound like robots who are wired to follow a narrow set of rules, butyou do it in such a bombastic fashion. Accidents are what make us human, not the other way around. A mother who suddenly sees her daughter gasping for breath in the back seat could spend a second too long and crash the car; a road sign too hard to read causes the driver to slow down only to get slammed from behind. And on and on. Your force/violence/whatever shtick is getting old.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 11:38:06 PM PST
C. Batty says:
Its already standard to show teens pictures of DD car crashes and in some schools, to stage reinactments, to educate kids about Drinking and Driving.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 11:53:10 PM PST
Maybe show two pictures: one woman who was a pacifist and got raped and another woman who shot her attacker and didn't. I know, I know, we're not supposed to talk about all the people whose lives have been saved by guns. The liberal media have taught us through censorship of those stories that that never happens.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 11:57:42 PM PST
C. Batty says:
What about the women who was shot struggling with her attacker for her gun?

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 25, 2012 12:39:31 AM PST
Ehkzu says:
saved vs. killed

Let's go for it and show photos of the 200 people saved by guns each year, alongside the 10,000 murdered by guns each year (not counting suicides).

I'd go for that.

http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/1994/10/19/dgu-00007/

It is emotionally very, very satisfying to see the intended victim turn the tables on the attacker. That's the essence of the TV series Buffy the Vampire Slayer, actually. I hate the fact that nearly all the time it turns out the other way. And with us already the most gun-toting society on Earth, it's very likely that more guns would only make it worse.

I saw a cop give an account of how she killed a mass murderer who'd invaded the church she attended. She wasn't just armed. She had the spine to shoot a bad guy--to pull that trigger--and the training needed to know how to protect herself while shooting him. Training reinforced by being a beat cop day in, day out.

I took an intro flight recently. Got to take the plane off myself after an hour of ground school and do various mild manuvers up in the air. I'd love to fly, but I realized that no one is safe being a pilot unless they can fly frequently and keep up with their skills practices in various aspects.

You need training to be able to hunt wild game safely. But that's a patch on what you need to be prepared for armed combat. And I bet most ex-military personnel from the combat arms would agree with me. A civilian who buys a gun, gets a few hours' training on the practice range, and keeps it in her purse would be like me, a scuba diver, having a knife strapped to my leg in case a shark attacks. Most of the time once a shark is coming at you in full attack mode and gets close enough for a knife to reach the shark he's going, like 30mph or more. And you might just as well be waving a toothpick for all the chance you have of that knife helping.

Unless you get special training in shark attacks and practice that training every weekend.

Now if we were like Sparta and every single young male--and, this being America, every single young female--got military combat training, and it was with the firearm they'd have thereafter in civilian life, and trained in firearms and other combat every weekend for many hours...that would be one thing.

But that's not realistic. The gun was once called the "great equalizer," but that concept has very real limits in the real world.

And in my experience some people couldn't handle armed combat no matter how much training you gave them.

The cop was in the right place at the right time and though off duty was armed. She is a genuine hero. But we can't possibly have enough trained cops watching out at every single place people gather in groups. It's not practical. And one guard per crowd scene wouldn't be remotely enough for most situations.

Sorry, but the only realistic solution is fewer guns overall, and the ones that are in private hands all registered and the owner licensed in a way that reflects the deadly capabilities of a firearm.

I'm not trying to be hard on gun owners. Some of my best friends etc. Well, that's a lie. I only know one guy who owns a gun, and he's a veteran cop in Sacramento. Oh, and the guy at church who's in the California Highway Patrol. But he's moving to Reno. And I didn't really know him. Oh, and one of my wife's nephews who's in Homeland Security.

I haven't seen combat myself--just boot camp. But even there I remember how different being on manuvers was from the firing range. So many things to remember about the operation of your firearm. Easy to recall if you practice frequently. But easy to lose that edge, get a little stale.

You can't arm the multitude and expect it to come out well, any more than if I hung scuba gear on everyone, gave them a few hours' instruction, and tossed them in the drink. I've been on over 650 open ocean dives and I still consider myself a beginner because each annual dive trip is like starting over at first.

Training, training, training. And I shouldn't have to mention that a human silhouette on a target flipping up on a firing range is not a guy with crazy eyes aiming an assault weapon at you, about to fire in less than a second.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 25, 2012 12:44:21 AM PST
Ehkzu says:
Have the parents who are willing testify, at as much length as they can. I suspect that would be enough.

Posted on Dec 25, 2012 5:53:27 AM PST
Fuzzy says:
Just pick up any Mexican or Spanish newspaper and you can see all the dead bodies you want.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 25, 2012 7:32:32 AM PST
freedom4all says:
Highways regulations say you must have your vehicle under control at all times. Hitting someone in the rear means you were too close at the speed you were following them. You violated a law. Someone could get killed or maimed for life by doing so.

What you want is non-responsibility for your actions. You want a nice warm fuzzy feeling each time you drive.

Guess again. You have a 5,000 pound killing machine under your control and your control only. That 30,000+ Americans including 2,000+ innocent children are killed by that machine each year, is a fact of our existence.

Freedom and liberty have a catch, individual responsibility for one's actions. Be carefully out there and watch out for individuals who are not.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 25, 2012 7:34:40 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 26, 2012 12:15:05 PM PST
freedom4all says:
How about showing them to everyone on the 6:00 News? Maybe on CNN and FOX? A 60 second spot showing the dead bodies mangled in with the bend mental, plastic and broken glass?

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 25, 2012 7:36:11 AM PST
freedom4all says:
Let's show them all Batty. The good, the bad and the ugly.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 25, 2012 7:37:15 AM PST
freedom4all says:
The American press should grow up and show all of the dead bodies.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 25, 2012 8:13:11 AM PST
Olaf1/6 says:
You can deflect all you want and get away from the real issue which is gun safety, not a high school teacher's lecture on good driving habits. Cars kill. We all know. It is just a failure on your part to see that the problem is different because, unlike cars, guns are designed to do damage. Cars are designed for something completely different. You do not hear 'Hey Grandma, I'm taking the car out to run over Sally because she wont go out with me anymore.' If Junior wants to kill his ex girlfriend he will probably go look for Grandma's rifle.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 25, 2012 8:25:26 AM PST
DCSports says:
That's pretty sick. So you want to take advantage of a tragedy and suffering to promote a political agenda? Unbelievable.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 25, 2012 8:37:33 AM PST
Shain Edge says:
" Let's go for it and show photos of the 200 people saved by guns each year, alongside the 10,000 murdered by guns each year (not counting suicides)."

Your terminology is incorrect. You make it sound like there is only 200 people saved a year with a gun. Not true, that is only a tiny subset. It is only the number saved by shooting the attacker. There are thousands saved a day by just the presentation of the firearm.
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Discussion in:  Politics forum
Participants:  25
Total posts:  74
Initial post:  Dec 24, 2012
Latest post:  Dec 29, 2012

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