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Customer Discussions > Psychology forum

End Results of Our Rock-Bottom Educational System

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Showing 376-400 of 611 posts in this discussion
In reply to an earlier post on Jun 12, 2012 5:04:48 PM PDT
Lisareads says:
Humans are not created to be a workforce that is slavery.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 12, 2012 5:06:34 PM PDT
Lisareads says:
It is inhuman to spend a life in a factory.

Posted on Jun 13, 2012 7:08:06 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 14, 2012 2:44:51 PM PDT

They are addressing a talent shortage, but also helping students focus.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 13, 2012 11:27:43 AM PDT
Lisareads says:
Like the police force employers do not want people to have brains just a strong back to whip. Any truly thinking person could not work for a corporation or government because of ethical reasons.

Posted on Jun 14, 2012 7:40:47 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 14, 2012 2:48:06 PM PDT

"We criticize predatory loans by mortgage brokers, when student loans can be just as abusive. To avoid the next credit bubble and debt crisis, we need to eliminate government subsidies and link tuition financing to the incomes of college graduates."

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 14, 2012 9:26:32 AM PDT
Lisareads says:
"To avoid the next credit bubble and debt crisis"
Lol Americans have already sold their children to slavery. No one should borrow from the future. The cause and effect laws require to save before spending.

Posted on Jun 17, 2012 6:05:52 AM PDT
Another interesting idea to help out college grads with crippling school debt ...

Kansas county with shrinking population, offering to pay $15.000 of a grad's debt if they live there full-time. Same with Niagra Falls, New York, whose program is only for local grads at the moment.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 17, 2012 9:39:37 AM PDT
Lisareads says:
You can not buy freedom to live where you choose. The whole concept of enslaving children with debt is a form of master control.

Posted on Jun 19, 2012 9:57:21 AM PDT

Public school students still lag behind international assessments for STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering and Math education). Some myths are debunked, but it's the same bottom line:

"Better that your child should be taught by an exciting, creative teacher using an outdated text than by a boring or hostile teacher using the latest curriculum."

Posted on Jun 24, 2012 6:20:26 AM PDT

Called the Interagency Academy, it is a unique and much needed school-of-last-resort for jailed, expelled, homeless, pregnant, gang-involved or learning disabled teenagers.

Posted on Jul 3, 2012 1:14:01 PM PDT

For third graders to read on their grade level is a benchmark to indicate how they will do later in high school. Kids who don't reach that benchmark by third grade, and live in poverty, are six times more likely not to graduate from high school.

This summer, mobile libraries are going to sites where low-income families participate in federal lunch programs, for kids and parents to check out books.

Posted on Jul 6, 2012 7:54:24 AM PDT

"The Education system has become culturally cohesive, rewarding and encouraging a certain sort of person... Young people (especially normally rambunctious boys) who don't fit this cultural ideal respond by disengaging and rebelling."

More male teachers? Fewer "rules" that basically just harass boys - whom studies have shown learn best by "doing"? A few boy-only classes for subjects they struggle with or excel in, like English and Math?

Posted on Jul 17, 2012 6:51:34 AM PDT

"The University of Washington is joining a massive, free experiment in online education that adherents believe has the potential to revolutionize the way college classes are taught, open up access to some of the university's most sought after courses, and drive down the cost of a degree."

Posted on Aug 8, 2012 9:53:15 AM PDT
One out of four black students are suspended at least once, between K-12.
Private companies that provide special education services to preschool children with learning/developmental disabilities, have misused millions of dollars.

These are dangerous trends. I never understood throwing money at programs or companies with no managerial oversight. But some school districts are searching for remedies:
"African-American males culturally tend to exhibit ... a more defiant attitude. That's really a sign of leadership and independence which is part of the African-American culture, and is seen as a positive thing. But in schools, it's interpreted as defiance and insubordination."

Some schools are looking for ways to punish bad behavior - but keep the students in the classroom and engaged in learning. One idea is having the whole class discuss a misbehaving student. This applies peer pressure, and the misbehaving kid is held accountable for how his/her actions are affecting the other students in the classroom.

Other programs give a misbehaving child three chances before suspending them, or else they are put in a corner with a tutor - which could be high-achieving student in the same class.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 7:00:18 PM PDT
Lisareads says:
We can not expect government funded by the taxpayer to provide special educational services for the children of the parent that does not have the means and ability to support their own child. Perhaps a support bond is needed for all pregnancies. If not then terminate problem and sterilize. We can not let government control lives. If we can not support a child over population will handle the issue as 5000 children and 23000 adults die each day due to lack of clean water or food. Just think how much education money could of keep those unwanted people alive.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 10, 2012 4:23:58 PM PDT
TO: Marilyn Martin

RE: "African-American males culturally tend to exhibit ... a more defiant attitude. That's really a sign of leadership and independence which is part of the African-American culture, and is seen as a positive thing. But in schools, it's interpreted as defiance and insubordination."

I am a black American and I went to public schools. Of course, that was back in the days when the schools had discipline. So, I vehemently disagree with the above quote. I believe that this kind of "social worker" double standard does a disservice not only to black Americans, but to all Americans. There should be one standard for all - whether it's in behavior or academics. To do otherwise demeans and cheapens the accomplishments of those who adhere to the accepted standard. And it engenders a mentality of entitlement to those who are given a "pass."

Posted on Aug 11, 2012 8:58:38 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 11, 2012 9:00:19 AM PDT
Hi Walter!

Thanks for your post. I was quoting from the article, and I thought it made sense since there is so little diversity in teachers in public schools. And the overwhelming majority of white female teachers could easily misinterpret as negative what a minoritiy sub-culture considers positive behavior.

Another factor today, is that female teachers are quicker to punish normal male rambunctiousness, and hold them to the same quiet behavior that comes more easily to female students. In turn, boys may quickly learn to hate school - which not only puts them in danger of dropping out of high school, but throws up a mental barrier against going to college or trade schools.
Male teachers are more likely to be able to recognize and deal successfully with normal "boy behavior" without treating it as "wrong".

You strike me as having been a gifted and high-achieving student from the get-go, Walter. You've said you always sit in the front row of classrooms. So you obviously benefited from quiet and orderly classrooms. Were you in Gifted classes?

I'm not saying that discipline issues aren't important. I'm just saying that in typical urban schools, punishing positive cultural behaviors and expecting boys to be as quiet and studious as female students, does a serious disservice to public school male students in general.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 11, 2012 9:28:54 AM PDT
Lisareads says:
"expecting boys to be as quiet and studious as female students, does a serious disservice to public school male students in general. "
The serious disservice is to stereotype gender.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 12, 2012 4:09:54 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 12, 2012 4:13:48 PM PDT
TO: Marilyn Martin


Although I became an engineer, I have tutored students (from junior high through grad school) off and on for several decades. Over that time, I have been told often, by many people, that I am a "natural teacher." Nevertheless, I have never considered becoming a "certified" teacher in today's (or those of the previous 30 years or so) public schools. I obviously cannot speak for other black men, but if I had wanted a career filled with the "spice" of danger, I would have become a cop or a soldier. At least in those jobs, you get to shoot back! (By the way, there ARE a lot of black men - and women - in law enforcement and the military these days.)

RE: "So you obviously benefited from quiet and orderly classrooms."

That's because the schools had discipline. And discipline was supported by the community. Expectations of students' behavior and academic performance were made crystal clear both by the teachers and the parents. Many people of my age cohort will say that if they got into trouble in school and received "swats," then they also got a "whippin'" when they got home, as well.

RE: "Were you in Gifted classes?"

I was in "College Prep" classes, which was the most advanced classification at that time.

Posted on Aug 13, 2012 8:02:55 AM PDT
Walter -

Thanks for your post. And you touched on a key aspect involving public schools that a lot of teachers complain about: Parents aren't involved, and/or place no value on public education beyond "you gotta go".

And yes, I know there are more black cops. I've seen some remarkable "Cops" shows where black street cops give little lectures to black kids that aren't accusatory or inflammatory, but are effective "What are you doing with your life?" mini-lectures.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 13, 2012 12:17:17 PM PDT
TO: Marilyn Martin

RE: "And yes, I know there are more black cops."

And don't forget the military. There are currently 2,260,000 members of the military. Blacks make up 17% (384,200) of that number and 9% of the officer corps. Interesting enough, more than 5% of the officers of flag rank (generals and admirals) are black.

Posted on Sep 3, 2012 8:20:11 AM PDT

The Brookings Institute analyzed educational requirements for new jobs in the 100 largest metro areas, and found that there are fewer and fewer jobs available for kids with only high school degrees.

"While roughly 40% of the U.S. population over 25 and living in large metro areas has only a high-school diploma or less, only 25% of jobs advertised online would be available to them."

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 3, 2012 8:49:55 AM PDT
TO: Marilyn Martin

RE: "...fewer jobs available for kids with only high school degrees."

I read an article about this study in the Washington Business Journal and it is not focusing on "kids" with high school educations. In fact, it doesn't even mention "kids." Such a misapprehension is similar to making the assumption (which many people implicitly do) that a person must have graduated from college at the age of 22, or so.


Things are not as straightforward as the article (or the study) makes it seem. For one thing, age discrimination is alive and well in American business and government. For example, I have seen, in on-line applications for jobs, including government jobs, an explicit requirement that one's degree cannot be more than three years old. (making the implicit assumption that a person must have graduated from college at about the age of 22 - and constituting de facto age discrimination) And these were not "high tech" positions where a case might be made (invalid though it would be) that a person with an "older" degree might have out-dated skills.

Even worse is the mind-set that only "college educated" people can be "skilled" workers. This ignores the huge number of jobs that, while they may require some specialized skills and/or experience, do not functionally require a college degree - although these days, "bureaucratically," they do. This attitude is fostered by policy makers, pundits, and executives (especially HR executives) who, of course, do have college degrees, themselves. This is the cause of "qualification creep." Two or three decades ago, the vast majority of so-called "skilled" jobs only required a high school diploma; many of these same jobs today a require a degree. The usual excuse is that the work world is so filled with "technology" these days that a college degree is a minimum requirement. That is bogus! Even for jobs requiring a person to interact with a computer all day, usually all that is required is for a person to either search for or enter information. The average person does not have to know how to program the computer. And the learning of most work-specific applications is trivial.

I notice that the study was done by the Brooking Institution, a long-time so-called "think tank." To me, it just seems to be a way of justifying their outrageous consulting fees. But then, I'm a cynical curmudgeon.

Here's a link to the study:

Posted on Sep 3, 2012 8:55:51 AM PDT

This is one part of the answer to get our young people up to speed with higher education and more valuable job skills. It drastically cuts the cost of an on-campus education, but all the courses necessary for a degree may not be on-line yet - if ever.

Still, it shows initiative if high school grads can take a few courses, and pass some minor tests for entry level jobs like data-entry, or knowing how to use math to program the robots in factories.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 3, 2012 9:23:44 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 3, 2012 9:28:11 AM PDT
I agree with much of what you said. I've never heard of a job posting requiring "a degree only three years old," although I do know that science and technology are growing by leaps and bounds every 6 months.

I heard a physician say that every year, 10% of what he learned in med school goes obsolete. And without attending yearly seminars to keep up with the latest advancements, everything he'd learned would be totally obsolete in ten years.

That's one big advantage of these online college courses, for people who have been out of college over 5 years and want to update their knowledge and skills.

Seattle is a high tech hub, with Microsoft, Boeing and Amazon, plus numerous start-ups and more patent applications than even Silicon Valley. They are busy trying to motivate students to get into science and technology, from international Science Fairs to having whiz-kids speak to high school classes about how cool science and technology can be.

Young people want to change the world? Getting into science and technology is a much more positive and productive path than protesting and anarchy!

And I agree, all kids shouldn't be pushed into college. And there are a lot of kids who may want to go to college, but don't graduate in their upper 10% that most colleges require to even apply. There should be training available for these kids to further their education somehow, and not waste their time and talent flipping burgers. High Tech industries are begging for qualified workers.

Maybe kids who just want the skills to work in factories and program the computers, can aim for just those skills:
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Discussion in:  Psychology forum
Participants:  31
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Initial post:  Aug 10, 2009
Latest post:  Sep 1, 2013

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