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Atheism is absurd


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Initial post: Feb 11, 2012 8:57:19 AM PST
ABOTA says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Feb 11, 2012 9:05:16 AM PST
Mr. Krinkle says:
Your post is absurd, I will give you that. An atheist can be fully aware that there is no intrinsic, objective meaning to life, and still find meaning and purpose in the lives they lead, and in the lives of others. There does not have to be intrinsic or objective meaning in life, for one to find life meaningful personally.

Posted on Feb 11, 2012 9:07:19 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 11, 2012 9:08:22 AM PST
"The logical outcome of true atheism is nihilism."

I never quite get over the prospect of believers telling people the world is futile without their god, so projecting their own nihilism and bruised ego onto others. Atheism is an affair of sanity, as seeing things as they are, not what you'd like them to be.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 11, 2012 9:27:23 AM PST
Mens Sana says:
Aromatic Bovine (wheeuuu!): Every sonnette, every war, every revolution, every act of heroism or treachery will ultimately come to the same meaningless end.

M_S: Each means something to the person experiencing them, therefore none are "meaningless." And each may influence someone in a succeeding generation - or not, therefore none are "meaningless."

Aromatic Bovine: The most die-hard atheist suspends his disbelief in order to function.

M_S: I don't think so. I am typing this message, and I believe it will be posted in this thread, in this Amazon forum, but perhaps you are playing around with a fuzzy definition of "belief."

Aromatic Bovine: Either the atheist is living a fantasy by acting as if life has meaning, or atheism itself is absurd.

M_S: It is obvious you have never spoken at length with any thinking atheist, perhaps only to one who has thought as little about this subject as have you. The fantasy is yours: enjoy.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 11, 2012 9:29:22 AM PST
ABOTA says:
@ Mr. Krinkle

I hope everyone will read your post as it serves as an excellent illustration of the very contradictory thinking that I am talking about. You state that an atheist can "find meaning and purpose" where there is "no intrinsic, objective meaning." This is exactly what atheists accuse theists of doing: finding something where there is nothing to find.

Posted on Feb 11, 2012 9:32:41 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 11, 2012 9:33:40 AM PST
There is no contradiction. He's comparing subjective meaning to objective meaning.

Or, put simply, he's for making the best of what you've got: not leaving it all up to sky fairies to take on the job for you.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 11, 2012 9:36:24 AM PST
Ponger says:
A conscience being can create its own purpose, For example, what is God's purpose besides holding our hand when we are scared? I suppose God's purpose is what ever he wants it to be, so can we. Perhaps atheists see enough value in this existence and don't fear death, and believe man should take care of himself and his brothers and not beg super Dad for help every day.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 11, 2012 9:42:59 AM PST
[Deleted by Amazon on Feb 11, 2012 12:10:07 PM PST]

Posted on Feb 11, 2012 9:45:43 AM PST
lenf says:
What a lot of twaddle! Of course there's no God, and how can something that isn't give any purpose to what is? I mean, seriously, if there's really a God up there, may he strike me down at this very minu

(just kidding... I'm still here. I don't believe, therefore I am.)

Posted on Feb 11, 2012 9:48:38 AM PST
ABOTA says:
What a lot of balderdash I'm reading! "A conscience can create its own purpose"? What does that mean? How long will that purpose last? In whose mind? Eventually that charade will end. It will have no more effect on the outcome of the universe than the wanderings of leaf, being blown by the wind.

Subjective meaning verses objective meaning? Look up at the sky. Whatever subjective meaning you give it will be snuffed out long before the objective existence of the sky comes to an end.

By looking inward for meaning you are all painting yourselves into a corner.

Absurd!

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 11, 2012 9:51:46 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 11, 2012 10:04:53 AM PST
Mr. Krinkle says:
Aromatic Bovine on the Alpine says:
@ Mr. Krinkle

I hope everyone will read your post as it serves as an excellent illustration of the very contradictory thinking that I am talking about. You state that an atheist can "find meaning and purpose" where there is "no intrinsic, objective meaning." This is exactly what atheists accuse theists of doing: finding something where there is nothing to find.

K: Or, it will demonstrate your inability to follow what words mean, and to think.

I find meaning in my relationships, in the things I love to do, in my family and friends. This is personal, subjective meaning. It means something to me, and I find purpose and meaning in my life through things that I value and love. This does not mean that I must believe these things to have intrinsic or objective value.

ABOTA: This is exactly what atheists accuse theists of doing: finding something where there is nothing to find.

K: Sorry, but no. Perhaps some atheists do this, but certainly not all, except when it concerns the existence of a deity. I don't tell a theist that there is no value in their beliefs. Many theists find great value in what they believe. I simply see no reason or evidence to believe that there is a god. This does not mean that theists' beliefs hold no value for them, or that they hold no benefit for them either.

Basically, an atheist disagrees with a theist about what the meaning the theist finds in their beliefs indicates. To an atheist, the meaning a theist finds in their beliefs does not indicate the existence of a God. An atheist does not, per atheism, say that the meaning a theist finds is without value to the theist. Some atheists may say this, but it is not a condition of atheism. I will easily agree with a theist that the meaning that they find in their religious beliefs may in fact have value and benefit for them. That does not mean I think this is evidence for the existence of a god. And it does not mean that the meaning theists find are of intrinsic or objective value. Rather, they are subjective, just as the meaning I find is subjective.

Posted on Feb 11, 2012 9:51:53 AM PST
[Deleted by Amazon on Feb 12, 2012 1:12:00 PM PST]

Posted on Feb 11, 2012 9:52:06 AM PST
lenf says:
"Eventually that charade will end."

As will, one can hope, your charade that there is a God.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 11, 2012 9:55:13 AM PST
ABOTA says:
@ Scientific Mind

Fine. Then address my post. Show the fallacy in the argument. Show the consistency in Krinkle's statements.

Your credo about Jesus and Christianity and the church and science are irrelevant. Why even bring this up? Go back to the original post. Read it and comment.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 11, 2012 9:57:05 AM PST
[Deleted by Amazon on Feb 12, 2012 1:12:57 PM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 11, 2012 9:59:24 AM PST
[Deleted by Amazon on Feb 12, 2012 1:13:06 PM PST]

Posted on Feb 11, 2012 10:02:07 AM PST
lenf,

Yes. I do not know how a Swede came to be in the Middle East. God works in mysterious ways. ;)

Posted on Feb 11, 2012 10:08:47 AM PST
ABOTA says:
[Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Show post anyway. Show all unhelpful posts.]

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 11, 2012 10:19:18 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 11, 2012 10:25:14 AM PST
zoltán says:
"You were presented with a challange [sic] to atheism..."

Where? I have never seen a credible one.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 11, 2012 10:19:19 AM PST
lenf says:
I always thought it was "God walks in mysterious ways." With a lurching limp, maybe. I guess I was wrong. :-) "Bringing in the sheep, bringing in the sheep, we will come rejoicing, bringing in the sheep..."

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 11, 2012 10:21:46 AM PST
lenf says:
"Are you not up to the challenge?"

What challenge? Discussing your fantasy creatures? Talk about boring...

Posted on Feb 11, 2012 10:31:22 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 11, 2012 10:48:37 AM PST
The forum title "Atheism is absurd."

Let us analyze this statement.

Atheism is non-belief. A non-belief in ANY gods and all the baggage that goes along with it (including the bad man Satan).

Christians are atheistic toward ANY gods that is not the god of their bible. In other words, Christians are atheists toward Muslim, Shinto, Buddhism and the 3000+ other gods that have been claimed to exist or worshiped over the past 5,0000 years.

So Christians deem all the other 3000+ gods as myths and untrue. They are atheistic toward those gods.

Is the Christian atheism toward all the other 3000+ gods who have been deemed as myths absurd as well?

What is absurd is the rejection of all the other gods that have been worshiped and deeming these as all false or myths. The arrogance then comes in with the claim (with a deep voice of authority) that their Christian god is the "truth" and real.

Let us review.

Atheists: All gods are myths and do not exist.
Christians: All gods are myths and do not exist, except my particular highly specialized Christian god. He exists and the others do not.

Lets face it Christians. If you were born in Iran, you would have been indoctrinated with the Muslim faith. If you happen to have been born in Japan, you might be following the Shinto religion or be a non-believer/Atheist. If you happened to have been born in Sweden, you might very well be an Atheist. However, you were born in the United States where you are indoctrinated with Christian belief.

Religious belief is cultural.

So, Atheism is not absurd. It is the ability to think beyond one's cultural boundaries. It is simply non-belief in a load of convoluted myths and dogma.

No more absurd than non-belief in leprechauns, fairies etc... Gods are on par with these flights of fancy.

Is the non-belief in leprechauns absurd? The non-belief in fairies absurd? How about the non-belief that the Earth is flat or the non-belief that the Sun orbits the Earth? Is that absurd?

True Atheists take the non-belief one god further to include all gods.

Christians are hung up on their Jesus/Christian god myth, just like the Muslims are hung up on their Allah myth and the Greeks who were hung up on their Zeus, Athena and Apollo etc... myths.

All of them, including Christians have their mind and life bent around mythical creatures. God monsters.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 11, 2012 10:34:34 AM PST
lenf says:
"Christians are hung up on their Jesus/Christian god myth, just like the Muslims are hung up on their Allah myth and the Greeks who were hung up on their Zeus, Athena and Apollo etc... myths."

I think the Greeks are more hung up on their debt refinancing myths at present, surely more a belief system than a reality anyway.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 11, 2012 10:36:10 AM PST
[Deleted by the author on Feb 11, 2012 12:02:57 PM PST]

Posted on Feb 11, 2012 10:36:21 AM PST
lenf,

Good point.
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Discussion in:  Religion forum
Participants:  193
Total posts:  4920
Initial post:  Feb 11, 2012
Latest post:  Jan 28, 2014

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