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A Message from an atheist


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Initial post: Nov 15, 2012 7:02:52 PM PST
Fred says:
Grow up.

There are no leprechauns, ghosts or bigfoots. And there is no Easter Bunny, Santa Clause, Tooth Fairy or God.

None of the supernatural mythologies from antiquity are real.

That is all.

Posted on Nov 15, 2012 7:21:00 PM PST
jpl says:
A Message from an atheist

Fred says: Grow up.

There are no leprechauns, ghosts or bigfoots. And there is no Easter Bunny, Santa Clause, Tooth Fairy or God.

None of the supernatural mythologies from antiquity are real.

That is all.

jpl: Asking adults who believe in impossible entities is like asking followers to think for themselves.

Posted on Nov 15, 2012 7:41:41 PM PST
[Deleted by the author on Nov 24, 2012 10:39:17 PM PST]

Posted on Nov 15, 2012 8:12:43 PM PST
Fred says:
If it's not obvious enough this thread is in response to "The wonderful message of atheism".
That one is like 2500 posts long as I type so I thought a splinter thread was in order.

It's not like there is a Church of atheism. There is no unified message. No answers. No forgiveness. Nobody telling you that you are a good person even if your not. No support group of cheerleaders every Sunday to reinforce your beliefs. No afterlife. Nothing whatsoever.

Being atheist is not for everyone. A lot of people need those things. But if you get to the point where it all just seems too silly to continue then don't expect there is any "message" waiting for you on the secular side. Because there isn't. You're on your own. It's a matter of intellectual honesty with one's self really. I mean how long can you really lie to yourself about Beelzebub and talking snakes and world floods and water to wine and virgin births? Etc...

None of that stuff is real. It's all a bunch of BS. Somewhere inside of you, you know it. When you are ready to deal with that then you become an atheist. And you are truly on your own for the first time in your life.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 9:23:08 PM PST
Re OP: Although I agree with this, you haven't made a persuasive case. To declare the nonexistence of god(s), ghosts, etc. are all universal statements, generally incapable of being proved. (If one were to declare that a particular god, say Zeus, existed, that would be an existential statement, and such are provable by demonstrating the existence of the postulated entity.) But it CAN be shown that no thesis involving a god can convey any information -- including information as to whether the god actually exists [1].

1. For details, "Search Customer Discussions" for "saundersg" in "Belief in the Christian god is absurd".

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 9:25:48 PM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 16, 2012 6:10:00 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 16, 2012 6:10:11 AM PST
Brian Curtis says:
No, Horsie. Criticism of religion will ALWAYS belong right here in this forum, no matter how many times you complain about it.

There's not a thing you can do about it, either.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 16, 2012 10:21:47 AM PST
Heaven101 says:
...there's an atheist forum????

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 16, 2012 10:43:26 AM PST
Yes, but it doesn't see much activity. It's like having a forum dedicated to people who don't collect stamps... there's no particular common theme or set of interests that unites us.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 16, 2012 10:47:49 AM PST
Boring.

Posted on Nov 16, 2012 10:49:09 AM PST
Heaven101 says:
Honest to God--there really is an Atheist forum. Now, I've seen everything. For some reason, it's all but been abandoned. Why? Do atheists tire of rehashing the same theories over and over with each other? Is the "Godlessness" of the community itself so dark that no man can bear it?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 16, 2012 10:55:01 AM PST
"Honest to God--there really is an Atheist forum. Now, I've seen everything. For some reason, it's all but been abandoned. Why? Do atheists tire of rehashing the same theories over and over with each other? Is the "Godlessness" of the community itself so dark that no man can bear it?"

Here's my post again, since you seem to have missed it the first time (in answer to you posting "...there's an atheist forum????"):

"Yes, but it doesn't see much activity. It's like having a forum dedicated to people who don't collect stamps... there's no particular common theme or set of interests that unites us."

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 16, 2012 11:01:40 AM PST
Heaven101 says:
MA: Yes, but it doesn't see much activity. It's like having a forum dedicated to people who don't collect stamps... there's no particular common theme or set of interests that unites us.

H101: But--if you don't believe in God, why does it seem to bother you people that others do? Why spend so much time and energy "debunking" religion? Why not just live and let live?

When I was a nonbeliever/atheist it never bothered me that others believed in God as long as they didn't approach ME with it. Even then, I was polite. I would take their tracts and then pretend as if I had an appointment I was late for. I can also remember allowing a few people to share their faith with me and being absolutely amazed that an otherwise sane adult actually believed in God.

I guess the point of this post is just to say that if you really don't believe in God/spirituality or what have you, why do you seek believers out?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 16, 2012 11:07:26 AM PST
Heaven101 says:
MA: there's no particular common theme or set of interests that unites us."

H101: Except maybe to try to kill the faith of the believer?

Posted on Nov 16, 2012 11:09:17 AM PST
Heaven101 says:
If a person believes and loves God...what harm is he/she doing? Why do you attempt to poison with doubt?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 16, 2012 11:10:15 AM PST
"H101: But--if you don't believe in God, why does it seem to bother you people that others do? Why spend so much time and energy "debunking" religion? Why not just live and let live?"

I can't speak for other atheists, just for myself:

I participate in the religion-oriented forums for several reasons:
* to better understand the beliefs and desires of theists, as they comprise the vast majority of the individuals I share a planet with,
* to counter the misunderstandings and outright falsehoods concerning atheists and atheism which continue to circulate, and
* to argue against the actions taken by *some* theists, actions which are destructive and toxic, actions which are motivated by their religious beliefs (which means that, on occasion, I must argue against the validity of those motivating beliefs).

It doesn't bother me that people believe in Zeus, Odin, or any of the other thousands of deities... what bothers me is what *some* of them do based on those beliefs.

I'd be happy to "live and let live"... but when *some* of those theists try to substitute myth and pseudoscience for science in the nation's classrooms, or deny equality and justice to gays and lesbians, or deny bodily autonomy to women, I am forced to speak up.

I'm not going into their churches... but some of them are coming into my life.

"When I was a nonbeliever/atheist it never bothered me that others believed in God as long as they didn't approach ME with it. Even then, I was polite. I would take their tracts and then pretend as if I had an appointment I was late for. I can also remember allowing a few people to share their faith with me and being absolutely amazed that an otherwise sane adult actually believed in God."

Same here.

"I guess the point of this post is just to say that if you really don't believe in God/spirituality or what have you, why do you seek believers out?"

See above.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 16, 2012 11:11:58 AM PST
"H101: Except maybe to try to kill the faith of the believer?"

And you'd be quite wrong about that... really, really wrong.

See? This is one of the reasons I'm here... to counter false statements like this one.

I don't want to "kill your faith". Feel free to believe whatever you like.

But, when a theist starts taking actions that harm me and my society, don't expect me to remain silent just because they justify those actions by saying "God says it's OK."

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 16, 2012 11:12:19 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 16, 2012 11:14:16 AM PST
Re Heaven, 11-16 11:01 AM: "being absolutely amazed that an otherwise sane adult actually believed in God." I still find this amazing. Why would anyone believe in something for which evidence is not only nonexistent, but provably impossible [1]?

"why do you seek believers out?" It is my purpose here to encourage rational thought, as that is the only way that our species can progress. Religion, of any sort, is an abandonment of such thought, and has not (and CANNOT) contribute anything to our existence except feelings of in-group fuzziness. And such a pollution of rational thought has led to atrocities such as the Crusades, the Inquisition, and of course 9/11.

1. For details, "Search Customer Discussions" for "saundersg" in "Belief in the Christian god is absurd".

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 16, 2012 11:13:17 AM PST
Heaven101

It is a source of concern because theists are continually trying to impose their beliefs on the rest of us. See school led prayer in public schools, teaching creationism in science classes, working to prevent minority rights (same sex marriage), opposing a woman's right to choose, religious displays on public property, editing the pledge to add 'under god', changing the national motto to 'in god we trust' especially when the original is far more characteristic of what the US is, putting 'in god we trust' on our money, requiring a national day of prayer, making it impossible for politicians to end a speech without 'god bless America'.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 16, 2012 11:14:14 AM PST
Heaven101

See my reply to an earlier post of yours.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 16, 2012 11:19:35 AM PST
"If a person believes and loves God...what harm is he/she doing?"

If their belief leads them to deny equality and justice to gays and lesbians, or deny bodily autonomy or education or equality to women, or obstruct the teaching of science in science classes, *that* is harm.

"Why do you attempt to poison with doubt?"

Part of being an adult is taking responsibility for the consequences of one's actions... and you can't effectively take responsibility if you don't understand what you're doing and why you're doing it... which opens up the possibility of doubt.

Doubt isn't poison... it's a sign you're actually thinking about what you're believing and doing, and why you're believing and doing it.

That said, I have no desire to undermine your faith... until and unless that faith leads you to take *actions* that harm me, my family, my friends, my community, my society.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 16, 2012 11:41:28 AM PST
[Deleted by the author on Jan 9, 2013 10:47:49 AM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 16, 2012 12:39:23 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 16, 2012 12:41:17 PM PST
Brian Curtis says:
"If you really don't believe in God/spirituality or what have you, why do you seek believers out?"

Because believers refuse to 'live and let live.' Instead they try to inject their personal beliefs into our schools, courtrooms, legislation, civil contracts, doctor's offices, and even bedrooms.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 16, 2012 12:40:32 PM PST
Brian Curtis says:
"If a person believes and loves God...what harm is he/she doing?"

Ask Matthew Shepard. or Dr. George Tiller.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 16, 2012 2:17:49 PM PST
Heaven101 says:
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Discussion in:  Religion forum
Participants:  91
Total posts:  2190
Initial post:  Nov 15, 2012
Latest post:  Jul 3, 2014

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