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Customer Discussions > Religion forum

How can a just God condemn someone to hell forever for a finite amount of sin? Part III


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Showing 1-25 of 1000 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Dec 31, 2011 2:36:28 PM PST
Astrocat says:
I don't want to let this die, so here we go, for another 10,000 posts!

Posted on Dec 31, 2011 2:38:25 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 31, 2011 2:42:28 PM PST
I. L. Walker says:
ND - You are a determined soul.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2011 2:39:17 PM PST
Astrocat says:
Well, I'm glad no one else created another thread with the same name. Onward!

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2011 2:43:18 PM PST
I. L. Walker says:
ND - If you build it they will come. You have a good heart ND.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2011 2:44:27 PM PST
Astrocat says:
Let's hope so, on both counts.....:)

Posted on Dec 31, 2011 2:53:51 PM PST
Aardwizz says:
(from the previous thread...)
I. L. WALKER: "All attributes which do not conform to the Word of God are false atrributes. "

AARDWIZZ: Fully HALF of the CHRISTIANS who responded to the OP question (in both threads) do NOT believe that Hell exists ("The wages of sin is Death"), or that God passes judgment on people ("they send themselves there") or that Hell is eternal, or that it's for people.

And yet EACH believes they following "the Word of God". The SAME word.

No, I.L., there are as many different kinds of Christian GODS as there are Christians. Each invents his own as need arises.

And it changes over time. Those who are lucky belleve themselves "looked after" by God. When tragedy strikes and they pray without result, those SAME PEOPLE will say, "...sometimes the answer is 'No'."

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2011 2:58:25 PM PST
I. L. Walker says:
ND - The sun sets on 2011 where I sit, I hope 2012 doesn't spin into hatred and violence, the signs are troubling. Sleep well and awake to the Promise of a New Year refreshed and renewed ND, talk to you next year, I am glad to have met you and all the other souls who reach out to others on this continuing thread. Silence is a foe not a friend.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2011 3:05:23 PM PST
Astrocat says:
I.L., well at least the Mayans have cleared up the confusion about the calendar, so we don't have to worry about the end of the world in December......:)

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2011 3:06:27 PM PST
I. L. Walker says:
Aardwizz - Christ did not speak of many Fathers, just One. The Truth about God does not depend on the qualities men attribute to Him. The revelation of God occured for all men when Jesus spoke of the Father during His public ministry. That revelation is confirmed and clarified in the Church which Jesus established to do so. I hope you have a Happy New Year Aardwizz and your job in the automotive industry is secure and fulfilling in the upcoming year. May your searching remain steady and fruitful. Blessings be upon you and your family.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2011 3:08:19 PM PST
I. L. Walker says:
ND - What me worry? ( Alfred E. Newman )

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2011 3:08:43 PM PST
sfon says:
Nancy Davison says: "I don't want to let this die, so here we go..."

Good call.

And I must thank you for the kind words expressed on the previous incarnation of this thread. To continue:

Nancy Davison says: "Of course there is no hell..."

It can exist in our minds, if we allow such a thing. It is our own creation. It can take various forms for various people. It is discontent, it is jealousy, it is fear...

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2011 3:08:55 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 31, 2011 3:10:42 PM PST
sfon says:
sfon says: "...serenity and fulfillment are only found within us... such is not transplanted from one to the other. People will find it in different ways: some through simplicity, some by a more circuitous path, and, perhaps, some not at all. I include you in saying... may each find inner serenity and fulfillment in a way that is meaningful to them."

L. Walker says: "sfon - What would it have meant if you had excluded me from your saying? Do you believe you have authority to exclude anyone from the true source of serenity?"

But I didn't exclude you. And it doesn't make any sense whatsoever, based on what I've said, to even suggest that I would think I could have any 'authority' to block someone from the source of serenity which is *within them*. It's as if you didn't read what I wrote, or didn't understand it, or again, our heads are in entirely different places. Not everyone one comes here with a pretense of some alleged 'authority', as some do not even think that way.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2011 3:14:03 PM PST
Astrocat says:
sfon, yes, if there is a "hell" of any kind, it's of our own making, illusory and certainly temporary, until we come to our senses.

Thanks for continuing to sign on. This is my favorite thread of the several I participate on.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2011 3:14:39 PM PST
I. L. Walker says:
sfon - God Bless you and your loved ones in 2012. I intend this not to provoke but to thank you, in my way, for the blessing your openess and patience have been to me in 2011.

Posted on Dec 31, 2011 3:16:47 PM PST
I. L. Walker says:
Come to think of it Alfred E. Newman might have stole that saying from Gandi. Sorry ND, I couldn't resist the misspelling. Will anyone else miss Glen Beck? Peace out.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2011 3:17:38 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 31, 2011 3:18:39 PM PST
Astrocat says:
sfon, interesting comment on "authority". I have to admit that I shake my head in wonder when people ask me what my authority is for this or that statement or opinion. I don't think that way, I don't need an authority, all I need are my own experiences and my ability to observe and learn.

Someone asked me, years ago, "but what if you're wrong?", as if that would be the worst thing that could happen. I'm sure my response was something like, "Well, if I am I'll learn from it eventually." I'm sure I've mentioned my favorite story about Thomas Edison on this (the earlier) thread, so won't go there again, but if we didn't make mistakes how would we ever learn? I have no fear of being wrong, in fact, being wrong has given me some of the meaningful lessons in my life, and ones that I won't likely forget!

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2011 3:20:52 PM PST
Iain says:
Dear Aardwizz,

From yours: "Fully HALF of the CHRISTIANS who responded to the OP question (in both threads) do NOT believe that Hell exists ("The wages of sin is Death"), or that God passes judgment on people ("they send themselves there") or that Hell is eternal, or that it's for people."

You'll note that Mr. Walker does not address this point in his reply to you, except to imply, of course, that "Christians" who don't belong to the "Church which Jesus established," by which he means the Catholic Church, are not Christians.

Iain

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2011 3:34:54 PM PST
sfon says:
I. L. Walker says: "sfon - God Bless you and your loved ones in 2012. I intend this not to provoke but to thank you, in my way, for the blessing your openess and patience have been to me in 2011."

Understood. Such an expression is 'your way' and meaningful to 'you', and to me, that's what makes it meaningful 'coming from you'. And, for that sentiment within you... I thank you, too.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2011 3:37:08 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 31, 2011 3:50:52 PM PST
Aardwizz says:
IAIN: " 'Christians' who don't belong to the 'Church which Jesus established,' by which he means the Catholic Church, are not Christians. "

AARDWIZZ: Ah, yes, I had forgotten that he describes himself as Catholic.. Of course, I've seen varied opinions from Catholics regarding the nature of God, Hell, creation, etc., as well. So my point still stands.

But I don't expect him to see that. About half the time when I post, although directed to one person, it's actually for those who aren't in agreement with the respondee. Rarely do I see anyone change their viewpoint based on the arguments made, no matter how well made and no matter how poorly thought out the OP.

As I said at the end of the last post - FEAR is a very powerful force. And the fear of being found out to be wrong is especially so. And so deep that the fear runs that we are rarely even aware that we have such a fear, or that our continual defense of our viewpoints are an expression of that fear.

õ¿õ¬

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2011 3:43:31 PM PST
Aardwizz says:
Nicely put, sfon. How many get offended when someone offers a "blessing" which is not shared in the person's worldview? (Goes for some Christian's, too, BTW. ("'Happy Holidays?!? no - it's CHRISTMAS!!!").

Namaste and shalom.

õ¿õ¬

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2011 3:44:14 PM PST
Iain says:
Dear Aardwizz,

From yours: "Ah, yes, I had orgotten that he describes himself as Catholic.. Of course, I've seen varied opinions from Catholics regarding the nature of God, Hell, creation, etc., as well. So my point still stands.

But I don't expect him to see that."

Oh, he'll see it, but his opinion is that Catholics who don't agree with him are not real Catholics; a heretic is a heretic.

Iain

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2011 3:56:47 PM PST
sfon says:
Nancy Davison says: "sfon, interesting comment on "authority". I have to admit that I shake my head in wonder when people ask me what my authority is for this or that statement or opinion. I don't think that way, I don't need an authority, all I need are my own experiences and my ability to observe and learn."

Agreed. I understand that I possess no 'authority'. Some experience, yes, but authority, no. My expressions are merely my own reflections on what I experience.

Nancy Davison says: "Someone asked me, years ago, "but what if you're wrong?", as if that would be the worst thing that could happen. I'm sure my response was something like, "Well, if I am I'll learn from it eventually." ... "if we didn't make mistakes how would we ever learn? I have no fear of being wrong, in fact, being wrong has given me some of the meaningful lessons in my life, and ones that I won't likely forget!"

"What if" never ends. It can be applied to anything. It is not being conscientious, it is fear.

Certainty is tempered by humility, but humility does not require endless self doubt, nor that we question our very sense of reality.

If we are 'wrong', we should be so genuinely. I should always want to take the consequences for being genuine, rather than the consequence of being disingenuous.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2011 3:59:50 PM PST
Astrocat says:
sfon, that is one thing I've never suffered from, that is "self doubt". That may sound pretty arrogant, but what I mean by it is that no matter where I go, what I do, what I discover, I take as part of the process. To doubt is just not part of my life's vocabulary.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2011 4:23:08 PM PST
sfon says:
Aardwizz says: "Nicely put, sfon. How many get offended when someone offers a "blessing" which is not shared in the person's worldview? (Goes for some Christian's, too, BTW. ("'Happy Holidays?!? no - it's CHRISTMAS!!!"). Namaste and shalom."

Sure, the 'blessing' may not be appropriate to the receiver but still a genuine sentiment from the one who gives it. I could tell someone to 'have a nice day' not knowing that they're on their way to their mother's funeral. We shouldn't want to appear thoughtless, but it's the sentiment that counts.

Posted on Dec 31, 2011 6:49:06 PM PST
Any amount of sin makes one unacceptable for Heaven. Since we are eternal beings, unlike angels, we cannot be destroyed. So, regardless of where we spend it, we will be alive for eternity. God offers to record Christ's perfectly lived life instead of ours on the scorecard if we ask Him to. If we prefer to let our own record stand, we will fail the test, no matter how "small" we think our sin is, because we have a sinful nature.
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Discussion in:  Religion forum
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Initial post:  Dec 31, 2011
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