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Life > God (Do you agree?)


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Showing 1-25 of 143 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Nov 15, 2012 12:07:34 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 15, 2012 12:11:22 PM PST
Jack Vix says:
God says to worship nothing other than Him, but I think the humans that wrote that neglecfed something...

Technically, you don't need a deity to be alive, but you need to be alive to worship one. So life must be inherently more important than God. So if you worship God, you should worship life even more and it should be valued higher than Him.

You might say "Well, people die for their god" but those people believe in life after life, they don't even believe in death, that's the whole point of religion: eternal life. So life has to be more important than your god.

You might say that without God there'd be no life, so He's more important. Suppose He decided not to make any life and it was just Him alone, then in that case he would be the most important thing. However, since there is life, the living couldn't value Him unless they are alive, it requires life before you can even value a God. So life is more important because it could continue without valuing God and it couldn't continue without valuing itself.

Even with God, the only thing you really depend on is life, without it you'd be nothing. And without God life is everything because what you do while you still exist is all that matters and is all the more precious.

So atheist or theist, life is more important than God.

Posted on Nov 15, 2012 12:25:10 PM PST
Art Franklin says:
My kneejerk reaction: there is no information in that equation.

But then I start quibbling: how is life being defined here? Is this God alive and breathing like a bunny or alive like the force in Star Wars or a river?

And this eternal life you speak of - what is that exactly? I mean even if a soul is living eternally the person is filed under D for Dead in my book.

So, not enough context to respond so far. I can easily picture a God of Death for whom life is just a momentary diversion - the forge in which He tempers souls and sorts wheat from chaff. In that case God > Life

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 12:26:10 PM PST
Heaven101 says:
Vix: "the living couldn't value Him unless they are alive, it requires life before you can even value a God"

H101: Excellent point--But, what's your understanding of that word "life"?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 12:33:03 PM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 12:33:54 PM PST
Jack Vix says:
I don't believe God and the afterlife is anything but imaginary, so it doesn't matter that there's no information. Of course there is no actual data to throw around, it's religion. It doesn't matter whether the deity would be a breathing beast or a force, that's not the point.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 12:34:56 PM PST
just cause you dont believe it does not mean you are correct
nor does it mean they dont exist

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 12:47:06 PM PST
Vicki says:
Dear Jack,

You asked :"Life>God (do you agree?)

I disagree.

You said :"Technically, you don't need a deity to be alive, but you need to be alive to worship one."

God didn't create life (or us) because He needed worshipers. He does not need anything.

He created life because it pleased Him to do so.
I believe He created us in His image, so that we could have fellowship-
with Him (and with each other) and to get to know Him and His love.
Worship is just our normal human response when we realize who God is.

You said :"Even with God, the only thing you really depend on is life, without it you'd be nothing."

You may be right. With Jesus, I have life and I have it abundantly, since he is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 12:57:02 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 15, 2012 1:00:28 PM PST
Jack Vix says:
Life is notoriously hard to define, but that's not the point and we don't need to quibble over the definition.

For simplicity sake, let's say "alive" is a term to signify the pumping of blood, and the generating of senses in an individual.

While we are alive, we are more dependant on being alive than worshipping a God, you can do without the latter but without the former you wouldn't be alive. Your heart would cease to pump blood and deprive you of oxygen and your brain would cease to generate senses. You would be nothing without life, without God you would still have life and it would be what you most depend on and what you do with it would be all that mattered.

Of course this makes it harder to discuss because there would be implications of an "afterlife", via some kind of "non-material" mechanisms. But if we carry over part of the definition "the generating of senses in an individual", then it still applies to say that without it, you would be nothing and unable to even worship a deity. Whatever soul you would be, the same would be true in principle, it would be more important than God.

However, this definition of life, where it's simply senses is inadequate because you can be knocked out and still alive, so spiritual ideas really tend to lack meaning because where would these senses be generating from in an individual? A soul without a body is a vacuous concept really.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 12:58:44 PM PST
Nothing is more important than God to those of us alive to say so.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 1:02:04 PM PST
Jack Vix says:
Without life you wouldn't be able to say that.

Without God you would still be able to say anything you want.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 1:03:22 PM PST
Wouldn't. Wouldn't be here.

Posted on Nov 15, 2012 1:04:02 PM PST
Astrocat says:
I recited this mantram on my walk across the lake today (well, over the earthen dam....):

"Thou God seest me.
This God is the divine in me, the indwelling Christ, the Soul.
For long ages this soul has perceived and observed me.
Now for the first time I am in a position to see God.
Up till now, I have been negative to this divine Reality.
The positive relation is becoming possible.
But - this seems to involved the idea of duality.
But I and God are one.
I am God, and have been all the time.
Therefore I have been seen by my Self.
I am that Self. That Self am I.

From "From Intellect to Intuition" page 230).

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 1:38:40 PM PST
Heaven101 says:
Vix: "let's say "alive" is a term to signify the pumping of blood, and the generating of senses in an individual...so spiritual ideas really tend to lack meaning because where would these senses be generating from in an individual? A soul without a body is a vacuous concept really"

H101: I see...

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 2:36:06 PM PST
Art Franklin says:
Jack said "For simplicity sake, let's say "alive" is a term to signify the pumping of blood, and the generating of senses in an individual."

In that case, God > Life IF God exists/existed, because God is not technically alive. Therefore the entity that we may call God can exist without Life.

In our day-to-day lives, Life > God because we can all experience Life whereas we cannot all experience the same gods.

Posted on Nov 15, 2012 2:44:01 PM PST
Heaven101 says:
People, people, people...

Since life is given by Jesus because Jesus is the ONLY way to eternal life AND Jesus is God's Son, Life = Jesus = God, is the only correct equation.

Enjoy

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 3:24:55 PM PST
Astrocat says:
101, are you being facetious?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 3:41:38 PM PST
Life=God. In him we move and have our being. There is nothing that isn't God for all is God.

"Closer is He than breathing, and nearer than hands and feet."
Alfred, Lord Tennyson

God is not a bearded old man in the sky. God is the life principle at the back of everything and is both in you and at the farthest reaches of the universe, and it is not possible to escape it any more than you can escape your blood or the air you breathe. You may deny that it exists but it will continue to do what it does regardless, namely it will continue to sustain you.

So life cannot be more important than God for they are one and must therefore be equally important.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 4:19:11 PM PST
Astrocat says:
Lewis, very well said. God/Life/Spirit/Energy/Consciousness - They're all one, and we're one with Them/It.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 5:53:20 PM PST
Jack Vix says:
Even in that case, you are not God, so 'life > God'. But, that's not what I meant. I was just defining it for us as humans. If there was a conscious intelligent being it's alive, at least in the sense that I was using it. It's aware and not dead, his mind exists. So if there were supernatural beings like gods, souls, etc., they would need to be in order to worship a god, so existing, being, or living, is required to even know what a god is, let alone worship one. So I should say to be more precise: "one's individual mind existing > God".

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 5:54:37 PM PST
Jack Vix says:
Well, I believe in and love life itself, but I don't believe in God or Jesus. So obviously they're not equal, they are different concepts completely.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 5:58:24 PM PST
Jack Vix says:
Life cannot possibly be equivalent to God, because I only believe in the former. They are completely different concepts, if it was just another word for life applied to it, like if I called life "mongimo" then you could get me to say that I believe in it. But that's just changing the word, not the idea.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 6:04:28 PM PST
Heaven101 says:
I am not.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 6:08:46 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 15, 2012 6:12:41 PM PST
ack Vix says:
Even in that case, you are not God, so 'life > God'. But, that's not what I meant. I was just defining it for us as humans. If there was a conscious intelligent being it's alive, at least in the sense that I was using it. It's aware and not dead, his mind exists. So if there were supernatural beings like gods, souls, etc., they would need to be in order to worship a god, so existing, being, or living, is required to even know what a god is, let alone worship one. So I should say to be more precise: "one's individual mind existing > God".
----------------------------------------------------
There are no supernatural gods requiring you to worship them with a bended knee as it were. Your individual mind is the product of that abstract animating principle of life some refer to as God, but with this difference. It is abstract, generic and universal. Your mind is merely a particularizing instrument of it and is it's this life as experienced from your particular standpoint. ie the particular. Your individual mind = God, and at some level it is less than that, but also one with it.

Your error is something like this.

The light bulb is greater or more important than electricity.

Actually neither one is more important than the other. Without electricity the light bulb is useless and without the light bulb electricity cannot produce light, which renders it useless as well when light is desired. Think of life and consciousness as the light that the two produce when connected. Note that the electricity is generic and universal and can possibly do an infinite number of things like toast bread, play a dvd (different states of consciousnesses therefore different manifestation of life) etc, and the light bulb is the particularizing instrument in this case only.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 6:09:57 PM PST
ack Vix says:
Life cannot possibly be equivalent to God, because I only believe in the former.
--------------------------------------------------
Your being ignorant of something does cause that thing to cease to exist.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 6:50:12 PM PST
Jack Vix says:
I may be ignorant of werewolves but I'm pretty sure they're imaginary. They never ceased to exist, they just never existed in the first place.
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Discussion in:  Religion forum
Participants:  18
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Initial post:  Nov 15, 2012
Latest post:  Nov 26, 2012

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