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The wonderful message of atheism


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Initial post: Oct 21, 2012 1:54:05 PM PDT
The wonderful message of atheism is..........there IS NO message.

Atheism is not a positive assertion, it is the antithesis of a positive assertion.

If I happen to not collect stamps, I am NOT sending out to the world a *message* of ----- "I am a non-collector of stamps, join me."

And since atheism HAS NO message to deliver, you can rest assured that --

*no atheists will come knocking on your doors trying to get you to join the atheists,

*atheists will not be demanding of the government that their non-belief be granted tax free status,

*atheists will not be lobbying state and federal governments and the public schools that a shaman/preacher/whatever from the atheists be allowed to chant some psychic imprecation to otherworldly powers before a ball game or session of Congress can commence.

*atheists will not be demanding that some arbitrary, predetermined set of ten "rules" that they want all other citizens to follow be mounted at the entrances to the courthouses of the nation.

And on, and and on, and on.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 21, 2012 2:29:32 PM PDT
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Posted on Oct 21, 2012 2:32:43 PM PDT
A Customer says:
"The wonderful message of atheism is..........there IS NO message"

That must explain why the ones here never shut up.

"If I happen to not collect stamps, I am NOT sending out to the world a *message* of ----- "I am a non-collector of stamps, join me.""

Actually, if you go to a Stamp Collectors Forum, the one thing you will not find there is non-Stamp Collectors spending all their waking hours badgering Stamp Collectors, proselytizing the beauty of not collecting stamps, and generally being obnoxious to anyone who doesn't embrace non-Stamp Collecting.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 21, 2012 4:56:30 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 21, 2012 4:58:06 PM PDT
Critical Thinker says:
The wonderful message of atheism is..........there IS NO message.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Therefore if I buy a book on atheism all the pages will be blank? What a rip off!
Its also easy to be an Atheist author. You can easily and quickly publish hundreds of books all with blank pages.

If you are an atheist you can also be sure that:

*you will never be wrong since you have no message.
*you can then make fun of intelligent people (often more intelligent than yourself) who are religious and or mystics and in the process bolster your self esteem.
*you can make infantile and unreasonable demands that religious people prove the existence of God forgetting that as an atheist you are also required to prove that all intelligent life and all the predictable laws of nature are caused by or created by nothing or blind and dumb forces.
*instead of knocking on doors trying to get people to join atheism and to enlighten them about the virtues of life without God and ruled by dumb and blind forces, you can make use of more modern technology like Amazon forums.
*make assumptions that all theists are fundamentalists who live their lives as dictated by a shaman/preacher and arbitrary rules.
*make assumptions that all theists are irrational, scientifically uneducated people with low IQ's. After all no one who disagrees with atheists can possibly have a high IQ.

And on and on and on...

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 21, 2012 5:27:41 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 21, 2012 5:39:33 PM PDT
A Customer says:
"*you can then make fun of intelligent people (often more intelligent than yourself) who are religious and or mystics and in the process bolster your self esteem."

I have often said that very thing many times. The "new atheism" could be considered one of the greatest self esteem boasting programs ever created, greater than all those other cheesy self esteem boasting programs out there. You can be a total shmuck, never even went to college, little understanding of the details of modern science, yet if you join Richard Dawkins' New Atheism self esteem program you get to think of yourself as one of the elite of humanity, those special enlightened beings that hover over the foolish superstitious unwashed masses that believe in God.

In one fell swoop you're no longer a loser, you're a smug and arrogant "new atheist", looking down on the rest of humanity. Take that you other self-help books!

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 21, 2012 5:47:30 PM PDT
Yes, I was actually very surprised by the obvious lack of scientific knowledge and inability to reason that many atheists in these fora have shown. I was also very surprised how many atheists have the impression that there actually is some kind of conflict between science and theism.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 21, 2012 5:53:20 PM PDT
Newbomb Turk says:
Mac: "Actually, if you go to a Stamp Collectors Forum, the one thing you will not find there is non-Stamp Collectors spending all their waking hours badgering Stamp Collectors"

Aren't you being a little disingenuous here? Do you really not see the difference between a hobby and a religious worldview? Christianity is making truth claims on some fairly important components of life in this country. Do you really expect those who disagree to just keep their mouths shut? Christians in this country say 'I know how god wants me to act', and that fine. But, they then say 'I know how he wants you to act too'. Do you really expect us to just sit down and take it?

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 21, 2012 6:00:27 PM PDT
A Customer says:
I'm sorry, I thought the non-Stamp Collector analogy was brought up in the O.P., my computer is obviously acting up, I'll have to get it fixed.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 21, 2012 6:03:30 PM PDT
Lewis

You botched the burden of proof stuff. Supernatural beasties are an extraordinary claim. The person making the extraordinary claim has the burden of supporting that claim.

To be atheist is to say 'I have never encountered anything in my life that provides a reason for me to believe supernatural beasts'. I don't have to prove supernatural beasties don't exist exist, an impossible task, only that there is no evidence to make me suppose there are.

Why are you guys so hung up the idea that atheism has to have a message? There may be as many implications for what that means as there are atheists.

The only real conflict with theism is when it tries to present it self as science. There was no six day creation event as described in Genesis, no fall, no Noachian Flood, no Exodus. If you are a theist that does not believe these are literal events, there is no conflict, per say.But too many theists want this nonsense taught as science and history.

Posted on Oct 21, 2012 6:05:15 PM PDT
Newbomb Turk says:
Mac: "I thought the non-Stamp Collector analogy was brought up in the O.P."

Are you being obtuse, just avoiding the question or both? I wasn't referring to the analogy itself (obviously). I'm asking you to define the behavior you would expect from an atheist?

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 21, 2012 6:06:35 PM PDT
If we lived in a world a vocal minority of stamp collectors

*spent their time asserting the moral superiority of stamp collectors (and implicitly or even explicitly asserting the immorality of not collecting stamps

* tried to deny equality and justice to other groups

* tried to get myth taught in science classes in place of science

* came knocking upon our doors to assert that not just stamp collecting, but *their particular preferred style of stamp collecting* must be adopted by anyone else

then I am certain that there would be plenty of non-stamp collectors posting in forums dedicated to stamp collecting.

Macheath is being disingenuous. Again.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 21, 2012 6:09:23 PM PDT
tokolosi says:
Pah-raise Je-a-sus!

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 21, 2012 6:09:40 PM PDT
MA

If only Shakespeare knew Macheath, if only Brecht knew this one.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 21, 2012 6:27:41 PM PDT
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In reply to an earlier post on Oct 21, 2012 6:30:10 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 21, 2012 6:31:27 PM PDT
Mark R. Allen says:
Lewis

You botched the burden of proof stuff. Supernatural beasties are an extraordinary claim. The person making the extraordinary claim has the burden of supporting that claim.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I botched nothing. I don't believe in supernatural beasties. There is no conflict between the God I believe in and scientific findings.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 21, 2012 6:30:25 PM PDT
>>> Lewis says:
*make assumptions that all theists are irrational, scientifically uneducated people with low IQ's. <<<

All of them? No.

A very large contingent of them? Yes.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 21, 2012 6:32:11 PM PDT
"There is no conflict between the God I belie[sic] in and scientific findings."

What evidence leads you to believe that a deity (and not two or a dozen or a thousand) exists, and has the characteristics you ascribe to it?

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 21, 2012 6:32:30 PM PDT
1Danny says:
That is not a wonderful message at all. And there is nothing wrong with positive messages.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 21, 2012 6:38:34 PM PDT
Lewis

Provide empirical evidence your god exists.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 21, 2012 6:42:18 PM PDT
>>>> Mark R. Allen says:
The only real conflict with theism is when it tries to present it self as science. There was no six day creation event as described in Genesis, no fall, no Noachian Flood, no Exodus. If you are a theist that does not believe these are literal events, there is no conflict, per say. But too many theists want this nonsense taught as science and history. <<<<

Excellent point.

Well spoken.

Theists are being extremely dishonest when they hide behind statements like --- "What? Atheists have the impression that there actually is some kind of conflict between science and theism? Why, there is no conflict."

The word they hide behind is *theism*. Sure, it is hard to make the case that --"There is a conflict between science and _theism_." ---- because 'theism' is a much broader and more vague term. It includes all sorts of fables and ideologies from Rastafarians to Buddhists to Baptists, .... and using the broad term *theism* serves simply as a smokescreen when trying to explain how various religious beliefs contradict science.

BUT......when we speak of religion in America, we are by and large speaking directly about _one_ particualr religion; Christianity. And THE handbook of Christianity is ... the 'Holy Bible'.

And the Bible DOES, to its very core and in virtually every way imaginable, put forward and represent an explanation of the physical reality that we inhabit that is --to put it mildly-- **contrary to science**.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 21, 2012 6:56:21 PM PDT
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In reply to an earlier post on Oct 21, 2012 6:59:24 PM PDT
Lewis, what evidence led you to believe that (a) one and only one deity exists, and (b) that this deity has the characteristics you believe it to have?

I mean, you must have reasons for why you believe as you believe... so what are they?

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 21, 2012 7:01:50 PM PDT
Newbomb Turk says:
Lewis:L "So you disagree with some of the things which Christians say.
Conclusion; there is no God. Is this your reasoning?"

No, that is not my reasoning. The reasons behind my lack of belief are varied, but at the core is the complete lack of evidence for the existence of any deities. I'm also not asserting that there 'is no god'.

My post was illustrating the reasons why a non-believer would participate in this discussion.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 21, 2012 7:05:41 PM PDT
Lewis

I provided all evidence for everything, while a simple piece of evidence from you would answer all the questions. Strange.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 21, 2012 7:10:52 PM PDT
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Discussion in:  Religion forum
Participants:  93
Total posts:  4486
Initial post:  Oct 21, 2012
Latest post:  Dec 26, 2012

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