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I was greeted by a "have a merry winter solstice"


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Showing 1-25 of 243 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Dec 17, 2012 12:02:17 PM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 12:04:50 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 17, 2012 12:41:04 PM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 12:08:32 PM PST
Astrocat says:
Firefly, do you really think that the Solstice is a "pagan" holiday? The Solstice is an astronomical fact, the time when the night is the longest of the year. The summer Solstice is when the day is the longest of the year. It's a perfect time for celebrating, the end of one season and the beginning of another. Christmas is the moment when the Sun starts moving north again, just after the Solstice, and has always been the focus of some sort of celebration, pagan or otherwise. Can't you just join in and rejoice with the rest of us?

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 12:11:23 PM PST
Perhaps you should move out of your pagan area? Then you would increase your chances of not being disrespected.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 12:27:23 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 17, 2012 12:28:46 PM PST
Solstice is not necessarily pagan. I have no problem with pagans. They just worship differently than I do. There was a concerted effort to undermine with original religions in Europe as the Romans began to take over. For them, it was a control issue. They were a male dominated culture. The native religions were mostly run by women and people turned to them for guidance and advice as well as medical care. Casting aspersions on the native culture has been unfortunately effective. We lost much of our wisdom as a culture because of that. The winter solstice is probably the reason that Christmas is located where it is in our calendar system.

"Pagans" do not worship the devil. That is crazy talk.

Where do you live? I would love to be greeted with "merry winter solstice". Where I live people only say that when they feel safe with you.

Posted on Dec 17, 2012 1:19:02 PM PST
>>> Kathleen M. Pelley says:
I would love to be greeted with "merry winter solstice". <<<

I would too.

It would absolutely make my day, to know that SOMEONE in the part of the world where I live is not focused on a religious reason for celebrating the end of one year and the beginning of another.

I'm 60, and have NEVER heard anything said to me but -- "Merry Christmas".

I do not accept the notion of there being a magical deity named "Christ", and I loathe having to hear it incessantly. I want to tell the person -- "Look, if _you_ want to imagine that there was some being named 'Christ' who was from another plane of existence and who rose from the dead, fine. But keep it to yourself" -- but I walk past and say nothing.

Yet --"Merry Christmas!!"-- is what I have had to listen to for my entire life, never once hearing -- "Merry winter solstice!". A TINY shred of fairness, one small instant of knowing that someone is NOT trying to force me to share in his/her metaphysical belief system would be nice for once.

Posted on Dec 17, 2012 1:28:21 PM PST
Songbird says:
Haha, I LOVE the winter solstice, being so far up nort', ya betcha, that it's a celebration of the days beginning to lengthen!! Yay, sunshine!

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 1:35:45 PM PST
Firefly - 'I was greeted by a "have a merry winter solstice"

Well, it *is* the 'reason for the season.' An upstart religion later took it over, as they did Easter and a lot of other things, but it was here first. Sorry.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 1:58:28 PM PST
barbW says:
The form "Christenmas" was also historically used, but is now considered archaic and dialectal, it derives from Middle English Cristenmasse, literally "Christian mass". So, both forms of the greeting could be considered at least annoying to anyone but a Christian.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 2:06:43 PM PST
Some churches issue Christmas cards with the wording "Blessed Christmass" to emphasize the Midnight Mass.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 2:11:02 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 17, 2012 2:11:37 PM PST
"Have a merry winter solstice."

That's exactly what I wrote on a card I sent to some Jewish friends. Seemed appropriate to me.
"pagan area" So, do you live in Austin? Take a pill and get over it.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 2:34:47 PM PST
Irish Lace says:
You're kidding about this righteous indignation, right?

P.S.) in my United States of America, our first language is English.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 2:39:07 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 17, 2012 2:41:07 PM PST
Irish Lace says:
"Yet --"Merry Christmas!!"-- is what I have had to listen to for my entire life, never once hearing -- "Merry winter solstice!". A TINY shred of fairness, one small instant of knowing that someone is NOT trying to force me to share in his/her metaphysical belief system would be nice for once. "

Have YOU ever said it? Next time someone greets you with "Merry Christmas" or whatever, return the greeting, "And a happy Winter Solstice to you!" with a BIG old grin!

I have no objection to anyone greeting me with good wishes. Whatever it is they are wishing for me, if it involves "merry" or "happy", "joyous" or "good," I'll take it!!

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 5:12:40 PM PST
Astrocat says:
I'm going to start saying "Merry Solstice", and see what kind of response I get. !!

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 5:28:34 PM PST
Irish Lace says:
Good! And if you say it to me, I'll answer, "Thank you! You too!"

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 5:47:09 PM PST
Nancy,

Probably a blank stare! At least the Winter being included includes a "clue"!!

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 5:56:53 PM PST
Astrocat says:
I'll let you know....

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 5:57:24 PM PST
JagdTiger says:
I would know what you meant...:-) .

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 6:08:23 PM PST
Nancy,

;-)

I may try it too.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 6:11:05 PM PST
Jag,

For where I normally hear Merry Christmas, in my area, I doubt half of the people would understand it, perhaps a few more if I include winter! I think it will come across like "happy snowman"!

For many of the older cultures there was more to celebrate with the solstice, there is no easy way to covey those "emotions".

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 9:40:34 PM PST
Ehkzu says:
re: "there was more to celebrate"

In northern Europe the Solstice wasn't just the turning of the year; it also commemorated when people could move around again after being confined to their immediate vicinity by the rivers and lakes being full of slush and ice chunks. After everything froze hard they could get across them, so the winter solstice let them go into town, visit friends, renew acquaintances--a time of merriment.

Note that Christ was born in the spring and only got His birthday moved to the time of the winter solstice for the same reason that the Spanish conquistadores built churches on top of Aztec temples (making archaeology in Mexico quite challenging BTW). Even the Christmas tree is a pagan symbol of life persisting through the dead of winter. So Christ is the interloper on the Winter Solstice, not the other way around.

That said, I have to imagine that if someone said "Merry Solstice" to Christ nowadays--if he dropped by for a visit--He'd say "Merry Solstice" right back.

Remember, he's the guy who told his more doctrinaire followers the Parable of the Good Samaritan for a reason--and one that remains, given threads like this.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 11:38:10 PM PST
Ehkzu,

I studied some of the first nations in North America, although not as well as I'd like to. There are also some Stonehenge type structures here too. Many of the date keeping and celebrations were marked by the way the sun moved and thus the building were oriented. The number of different "groups" that organized building around the angles of the sun never ceases to amaze me. The marking of the lengthening of the days, the looking forward to spring, and in mythology the return of "what's her name" from the underworld. There are more than a few cultures that recognized that a promise of a future in changes of the seasons.

As for moving around, I would have thought in Europe especially would have been after the harvest and canning etc. The hardest part of the winter is after the Winter Solstice, the beginning of winter. The preparations would indeed need to stop as the land could no longer be prepared (frozen) the repairs on the outside would be put away -- is that what you mean by moving around again? I know in Minnesota, on the many lakes, some of the moving of building materials is done during the hard freeze as it is easier to move materials when the lakes are frozen; but I wouldn't have consider that in Europe as a whole, any more than I consider it North America as a whole.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 18, 2012 1:30:32 AM PST
G. Heron says:
Firefly

"Our first language is Christianity/thetruth"

I thought it was English although admittedly a mangled version of the original.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 18, 2012 2:00:53 AM PST
He means language with religious overtones.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 18, 2012 5:25:59 AM PST
The cashier could have said "Have a merry Saturnalia." The biblical scholar Marcello Craveri wrote the following on Page 39 of "The Life of Jesus," Grove Press (1967) The Life of Jesus

"In Rome the feast of Sol Invictus [celebrated on December 25 as Dies Natalis Solis Invicti] always marked the end of a festival even more ancient but equally dedicated to the celebration of the self-renewal of nature: the Saturnalia. Based on the mythical era of the god Saturn, supposed to have been an age of happiness, peace, and brotherhood among all men, the Saturnalia in those days was a time in which the Romans abandoned themselves to touching demonstrations of friendship and affection. Even slaves had the right to sit at table with their masters and be served by them during the festival. It was a simple matter for Christianity--which was based fundamentally on universal brotherhood--to replace the heathen belief in the age of Saturn without impairing the admirable customs of the Saturnalia."
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Discussion in:  Religion forum
Participants:  34
Total posts:  243
Initial post:  Dec 17, 2012
Latest post:  Dec 24, 2012

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