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Where was God today? Not in CT


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Initial post: Dec 14, 2012 12:36:00 PM PST
The parents of children spared are thanking god. What does that say about the children who were not spared? Is your god infallible, all powerful or not?

Posted on Dec 14, 2012 3:27:20 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 14, 2012 3:31:50 PM PST
MLC says:
I remember when the son of an acquaintance flipped his car over in the ditch. The teenager walked away from the accident unhurt. His father thanked God, saying, "God is good."

But here's the thing. Goodness is a characteristic of God. It does not change no matter what happens here on this earth. If that man's son had been killed or left brain-damaged or crippled, God would still be good. But we have this tendency to think that he has to do things the way we want. If he doesn't, then he can't be good.

The reality is that we live in a fallen world. By human choice, sin and evil entered the world. That is why things like the shooting in Connecticut occur.

As someone who was disabled in a car accident and who lives in constant pain, I can tell you that I spent a long time being angry with God about it. But then I looked at the cross of Christ. Jesus died for my sins. He didn't deserve it. He didn't have to do it. And he would have done it for me alone even if nobody else accepted his gift. It is at the cross that we see the love of God because he died for humanity and, quite frankly, we don't deserve it because we are all born with sin natures -- rotten to the very core.

I have seen God bring good out of the worst of circumstances, in my life and in the lives of others. And here's the thing: My heart may break with what happened in Connecticut and the hearts of people all over the world may break because of it, but nobody feels the sorrow and pain and grief that God feels at what happened there. Evil hurts him more than it hurts any of us because, as a holy God, he understands it better than any of us.

It does not necessarily follow that a loving God has to keep evil from happening. Therefore, evil is not evidence that God doesn't exist. But here's the thing: In reality, he has already dealt with it. Again, I point to the cross of Christ. It is there that Jesus defeated sin, evil and death through his crucifixion and resurrection.

However, that defeat has to be lived out in real time and it will not be completed until Christ returns to earth at a date which no human being knows. The Book of Revelation tells us how the Lord will deal with evil. He will end it completely and, ultimately, create a new heaven and a new earth.

Yes, there will be people who blame God for the evil on this earth instead of admitting that humanity itself is the source of it. But remember this: The Bible never tells us that God will take pain and suffering away. It only promises that Jesus will walk with us through it, comforting us and strengthening us. I can attest to the fact that he does indeed do that.

Instead of blaming God, people should be turning to him in times of trouble. People should be turning to him now in the light of the shootings at that public school. Truly, Christianity is the only worldview that explains why there is evil and how it can be dealt with. Atheism certainly has nothing to offer -- no explanation, no comfort, no hope.

I add one last thing: Elie Wiesel tells of being in a Nazi concentration camp watching the hanging of several people, including a mere boy. In his heart, he asked, "Where are you, God?" And in his heart, he received the answer. "I'm right up there on the scaffold with them."

Where is God now? He's there in Newtown, Connecticut, standing with all those who hurt, offering them his strength, his comfort, his peace. To refuse it is to refuse the very power of God.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 14, 2012 3:33:52 PM PST
S. Friedman says:
"Is your god infallible, all powerful or not?"

I don't have a god.

As disturbing as today's events were, having no religious beliefs makes it easier to understand how stuff like this can happen.

It's almost painful to watch believers try to explain senseless tragedy under the watchful eye of a loving god.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 14, 2012 3:37:05 PM PST
>The parents of children spared are thanking god. What does that say about the children who were not spared? Is your god infallible, all powerful or not?

In a way, you may have hit the nail on the head! Mike Huckabee explained to Fox News this afternoon that this happened because "we have removed God from our schools."

Alternatively, it may be that God was on a religious holiday.

Posted on Dec 14, 2012 3:41:26 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 14, 2012 3:43:49 PM PST
MLC says:
S. Friedman wrote: " As disturbing as today's events were, having no religious beliefs makes it easier to understand how stuff like this can happen. It's almost painful to watch believers try to explain senseless tragedy under the watchful eye of a loving god."

I can understand that response, but there again, you're buying into the idea that, if there is a God, he can't be loving because bad things happen. That is not something that can be argued rationally. The people who tout that stance do so for entirely emotional reasons. I understand that. Evil hurts. I don't like it either.

But no human being can do anything about evil. Only God can. He has done something about it at the cross of Christ. He is doing something about it by giving us the Holy Spirit who restrains evil. He will do something about it when Christ returns and totally eradicates evil.

It's painful to see people misunderstand and blame God for things that are the responsibility of human beings. Don't ever forget that we have free will and we reap the results of bad choices time and time again.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 14, 2012 3:54:09 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 14, 2012 4:10:39 PM PST
S. Friedman says:
MLC,
FWIW, the presence of evil has nothing to do with why I don't believe any gods exist. With that in mind, please understand that I can't and don't blame an entity that I don't believe exists.

I agree that what happens is the responsibility of human beings. I don't believe your claim that being a believer offers any benefit now or in the future.

Posted on Dec 14, 2012 4:23:56 PM PST
Either he is all powerful and can do anything and chose not to save some kids, or he is not at all powerful. I don't believe in the mythology, just shake my head at the "God is good" reaction for those who were saved but no "God is evil" fot those who were slaughtered. Sort of like Tebow never says "Jesus made me fumble".

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 14, 2012 5:20:12 PM PST
But he spared some?

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 14, 2012 5:31:06 PM PST
How can you possibly think such a thing? In other words, he chose some to die and others to live. That makes God an evil Calvinist.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 14, 2012 5:47:32 PM PST
MLC
Where is God now? He's there in Newtown, Connecticut, standing with all those who hurt, offering them his strength, his comfort, his peace. To refuse it is to refuse the very power of God.

PJA . If God is in Connecticut, then he should hang his head in absolute shame for "his" inactivity... If ever there was proof needed that there is no God, there it is.....

Posted on Dec 14, 2012 5:55:32 PM PST
Gneiss Guy says:
It does not matter whether you believe in "God" or not, arguing about "God's" existence or goodness is only going to make both sides dig in their heels and not listen to each other. At this time we should be holding the families who lost a member in our thoughts. If you believe you should pray. Then we should join together to decide how we can change the laws to make something like this less likely to happen in the future.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 14, 2012 6:00:23 PM PST
Brian Hayes says: "Then we should join together to decide how we can change the laws to make something like this less likely to happen in the future."

What was wrong with the laws in this case?

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 14, 2012 6:02:27 PM PST
Heaven101 says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Dec 14, 2012 6:04:37 PM PST
Heaven101 says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Dec 14, 2012 6:24:14 PM PST
Gneiss Guy says:
One, it is two hard to get people who are exhibiting anti-social behavior off the streets. The gunmen at VA Tech and Aurora were exhibiting demostrably antisocial behavior to their mental healt professionals and there was no way they could get them off the streets.

Two, while I am a firm believer in the 2nd Amendment, I think we could do a better job of keeping guns out of the hands of people who should not have them. Things like closing the gun show loophole in all of the states. Things like really thorough background checks.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 14, 2012 6:26:14 PM PST
Gwaithmir says:
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" -- Epicurus

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 14, 2012 6:37:02 PM PST
Gneiss Guy says:
That is a nice little logic puzzle, but it assumes that we are puppets of the Gods and not responsible for our own actions through freewill.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 14, 2012 7:07:54 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 14, 2012 7:25:14 PM PST
First, I haven't heard anything on the news yet to indicate the kid exhibited anti-social or any other behavior that might have alerted authorities that he had a propensity for mass murder. So you're jumping the gun on that one (no pun intended).

As for the guns he used, they belonged to his mother and were legally purchased and registered. Therefore, strict background checks and the like may have had no effect in this case.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 14, 2012 7:26:16 PM PST
Gneiss Guy says:
We don't know enough about this case yet, in the majority of cases like this the perpetrator did exhibit anti-social behavior beforehand. So would be a move on general principle. In 50s people were committed just for being different and now we can't do anything until they commit a felony.

Would not have stopped this gunman, but would have stopped VA Tech Gunman, and Possibly CO gunman. We will never stop all, does that mean we should do nothing? A man in China attacked an elementary school today with a knife, he injured 22 children. What would have happened if he had a gun?

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 14, 2012 7:38:11 PM PST
If we are to ever get any meaningful and effective measures that could minimize gun crimes, it's first necessary to get the incompetents and political hacks out of government. Since hell will freeze over before this happens, I see little hope.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 14, 2012 7:42:13 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 14, 2012 7:46:19 PM PST
Gneiss Guy says:
IT will take political courage that I have yet seen in government, but as long there are people preaching that the solution is more conceal carry permits I see little hope either.

People on the right have repeatly have said "An armed society is a polite society." Iraq, Afghanistan and now Syria are armed societies, how polite are those societies?

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 14, 2012 8:02:21 PM PST
That, right there. Thanks for the quote, it is exactly what I was trying to say.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 14, 2012 8:10:13 PM PST
My question is simple. People are praising god for the children that were spared but when it comes to those that died? Whrre was he/she/it for them? You cannot have it both ways. If he saved some, he failed others.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 14, 2012 8:10:36 PM PST
S. Kessler says:
MLC: The reality is that we live in a fallen world. By human choice, sin and evil entered the world. That is why things like the shooting in Connecticut occur.

SK: Oh, Lordy! The CT massacre is all Adam's fault for eating that damned apple that Eve gave him! And here I thought it was because of our unwillingness to deal with our gun loving culture.

Of course I don't blame God for this tragedy. I can't blame something that doesn't exist. But if ever there was evidence that he doesn't exist, this is a pretty good example of it.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 14, 2012 8:14:33 PM PST
S. Kessler says:
MLC: But no human being can do anything about evil. Only God can. He has done something about it at the cross of Christ. He is doing something about it by giving us the Holy Spirit who restrains evil. He will do something about it when Christ returns and totally eradicates evil.

SK: So WTF is taking him so long? Considering that almost 2,000 years of practically nonstop violence has occurred on this planet since the crucifixion, I find it rather difficult to see what, if anything, your God did back then. Why has he waited so long to do something more about it? Does he enjoy watching the violence from on high, like some cosmic Super Bowl?
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Discussion in:  Religion forum
Participants:  85
Total posts:  1712
Initial post:  Dec 14, 2012
Latest post:  Jan 12, 2013

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