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How do we know we could trust a god who claims to be the one God?


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Initial post: Dec 23, 2012 7:44:04 AM PST
Why should we trust?

Or maybe this Judeo-Christian god did create humans? How do we trust that he is the alpha god? Maybe we are just sheep for the slaughter, he will tell us anything to help make himself feel powerful.

Posted on Dec 23, 2012 11:02:53 PM PST
Jenn D. says:
This reminds me of a story, 'The Secret Book of John', a Gnostic text from the Nag Hammadi library. In it there is a entity that is created without the Father of the Light's (otherwise known as The One) approval. In the story the entity goes on to create other realms and stationed rulers there. The entity would then say to all he had created "I am God and there is no other God but me" because he did not know where his power had originated from.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 7:37:35 AM PST
Vicki says:
Dear o_0

How can we know if we can trust God?

First, it is hard to trust someone you don't really know, so I found myself asking this question when I considered if I should repent of my sins and put my faith in Jesus.

I wish I could say that I looked at the Bible and saw how God didn't lie and He fulfilled the promises that he made to people whose stories the Bible relates to us. But, I couldn't make heads or tails of the Bible at the time, so I can't really say that.

For me, it came down to looking at the alternatives.
I could trust in myself or trust in others, all of whom are fallible.
The little bit I had learned about the divine, I found did not match up with what other religions and spiritual paths said.

But I have to admit that when I took my leap of faith, I wasn't absolutely certain that I could trust God. But, I was willing to give Jesus a try because I wasn't doing so great on my own. That was several years ago and I have come to know God a lot better during that time. He has proved to be trustworthy, faithful, loving, merciful, forgiving, wise, kind (among other things). I know that I can trust Him because He's not a stranger to me, anymore.

Posted on Dec 24, 2012 9:02:28 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 24, 2012 6:30:10 PM PST
Vicki writes "He has proved to be trustworthy, faithful, loving, merciful."

Merciful. He was not very "merciful" to those 20 six year old children who were murdered last week. Also the adults who were murdered. The first police officers who had to witness the dead children. This all powerful almighty universe creating god just let it happen and did not lift a finger. The "mercy" this god shows by allowing the murders and also his "loving" and "kindness" toward those parents, sisters, brothers, uncles, aunts and grandparents who lost their little loved ones. The grief and sadness they are experiencing. Affecting them for the rest of their lives. It might even cause some to experience mental problems including deep depression etc... Yes the kindness of the Christian god. It is so evident.

Not to mention all the children on a daily basis who die horribly from cancer or who are kidnapped, brutally raped and then murdered. Once again this proclaimed kind and loving god does nothing to prevent it from happening. Dying from cancer is not free will and neither is being abducted and murdered.

1. This god doesn't exist or
2. This god that Christians worship is a sadistic SOB and enjoys the suffering of "his" creation.

20 children dead in CT. Some Christians. How soon they forget. Some Christians spout off how feeling they are toward other humans. I often wonder.

Not a god I would look up to or give any of my time devoted to admiring or worship.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 9:33:57 AM PST
Astrocat says:
Jenn, the Gnostics thought that Sophia - Wisdom - was the highest god and that Yahweh was just a demi-god who thought "he" was the best of them all. "He" was unaware that Sophia was "his" Mother and that She was the highest, most powerful god. "The Secret Book of John" is an interesting take on that theory.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 10:22:32 AM PST
Jeff Marzano says:
Jenn D. says:

[This reminds me of a story, 'The Secret Book of John', a Gnostic text from the Nag Hammadi library.]

When that guy found the so called Nag Hamadi library he took it home and his mother threw many of the documents into the fireplace to keep warm.

This was a great tragedy. It was a tragedy in the sense that she didn't throw all of them into the fire.

Jeff Marzano

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 10:38:28 AM PST
Astrocat says:
Jeff, the real tragedy was that the orthodox "fathers" demanded that the texts be destroyed in the first place. They should have been distributed along with the texts chosen by the "fathers", so that people could make their choices with all the evidence before them.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 2:19:30 PM PST
Jeff Marzano says:
Nancy Davison says:

[Jeff, the real tragedy was that the orthodox "fathers" demanded that the texts be destroyed in the first place.]

Speaking of liars, false teachers, and crackpots, how are you Nancy ?

I've expressed my utter contempt and complete lack of respect for everything that comes out of your mouth on several different occasions, most recently in the following message.

Since I wrote that I have read more of what you said in these forums. You feel that you and your friends have received an important mission from the Masters Of Light that you talk to in the other dimension. The Ascended Masters told you to go out and 'spiritualize this physical dimension'.

That's called being in a cult Nancy which is exactly what you are. A cult member.

Those unseen spirit guides you talk to lied to your heroes the illustrious Madame Helena Blavatsky and Alice Bailey and they lie to you now. But you don't care. There aren't enough demons in the entire universe to satisfy your infinite desire to hear more lies. That's why you love the Gnostic gospels which you study to try to find the secret codes that the evil Church fathers have concealed from their stupid followers for the last 2,000 years.

So I know you will never listen to people like me. For you I'm the enemy who is trying to prevent you from carrying out your mission in the world. That mission is creating doubt and confusion in the minds of those who are trying to find the truth which is exactly what you do in these forums.

Whatever spark of the truth existed in you was smothered and snuffed out long ago when you left the Catholic Church. Now you try to lead others down that dead end path you are on.

Jeff Marzano

Jeff Marzano says:

Macheath says:

[The only claims you seem to reject are the ones Christianity makes.]

Yes you are 100 % correct. She is a lover of lies, false teachings, and half truths.

Recently she stated she's doing an in depth study of the so called 'gospel of Judas' to find the hidden meanings that the evil fathers of the Catholic Church concealed from all of their stupid followers many centuries ago. The conspiracy continues but thank God there's a few voices crying in the wilderness to warn everyone of this sinister Da Vinci Code plot.

After she has done this analysis she will run her findings past her unseen teachers in the spirit world, the Masters Of Light who also spoke to her hero Madame Helena Blavatsky. Her and her friends in their cult speak to those spirit guides in another dimension.

Unfortunately what they don't realize is those ascended masters lie. They lied to Blavatsky and they lie to those cult members now.

But they really don't care anyway. Because as I said they are lovers of lies. They wish they could find a gigantic warehouse containing an endless sea of worthless documents like the gospel of Judas so they could spend the rest of their lives finding the secret codes. In fact that's what they really do.

Jeff Marzano

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 2:26:27 PM PST
Mickey says:
I've never heard a God claim anything - just humans who claim they know a God and can speak for him. That's why I'm agnostic.

Just sayin . . .

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 2:31:04 PM PST
Mickey, once people actually begin to know God, you probably won't hear from them.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 2:34:20 PM PST
Lao Tzu says:
Jenn, your post reminds me of a short story I wrote, here it is:

Who thought up the concept of God?

The WHO that thought up the concept of God was in fact Manager God. Manager God, being in charge of the Milky Way and several other nearby Galaxies (Canis Major, Ursa Major and the Larger Magellanic Cloud) is quite powerful. Just his act of thinking about God was enough to create him, and our God was only the 5th time he had done so. Our God is only 3 Big Bangs old, relatively young as Gods go, which explains some of the communication errors and misunderstandings between him and his followers. Our God is actually a minor functionary in the scheme of creation, at maximum being able to flood the earth, or stop the sun in the sky (albeit briefly). This was more than enough to impress the yokels and start a religion.

God's job is to turn in his progress reports on the 537 self aware species on this particular arm of the Milky Way to Manager God every complete galactic revolution, or 300 million of our years. Because of the timing, it may be that Manager God is not even aware of the existence of humanity, although no one knows for sure. Species self-esteem being what it is, our God goes to great pains to convince each lesser species that they are unique and favored.

Some posit the existence of a Director God that is in charge of more than 50,000 galaxies, an astounding amount of matter and energy, but there is very little evidence of this. Rumor has it our God saw this Being just once on a training retreat some 5 billion years ago and got to shake his hand, but not since then. Director God must be very busy with More Important Things. 50,000 galaxies do not run themselves. That is the most anyone knows.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 2:54:04 PM PST
IFeelFree says:
JM: Whatever spark of the truth existed in you was smothered and snuffed out long ago when you left the Catholic Church. Now you try to lead others down that dead end path you are on.

IFF: The Catholic church is the biggest cult of all. It has trapped countless millions within an archaic structure of myths, dogmas, and social conflicts that no longer serve the true spiritual process. True spirituality is oriented around practices that provide actual spiritual experience and realization.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 4:50:19 PM PST
Astrocat says:
Jeff, you know the old saying, "To each her own". You have your understandings and I have mine. Obviously they are incompatible.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 4:51:56 PM PST
Astrocat says:
Hear! Hear! IFF, thanks for your post. I agree that the Catholic church, and, really, all the Christian sects, are pretty cultish in their approach. But then orthodoxy always is, as much as they refuse to admit it.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 7:10:59 PM PST
Yes, I don't think the Catholic Church is any more cultish than say most Baptists.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 8:03:58 PM PST
Astrocat says:
Kathleen, I agree. There are a couple of definitions for cult. Both are used pretty extensively.

1. A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
2. A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 8:18:50 PM PST
Bubba says:
I would say that the Catholic Church is as cultish as the Southern Baptists.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 8:30:24 PM PST
Nancy,
I kind of get the impression that the term "cult" is intended to be an insult. Your #1 definition would basically hit all Christians as well as all Muslims :-)

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 8:31:29 PM PST
I don't disagree, Bubba. As I said to Nancy Davison, all Christians would fall into her #1 definition of a cult.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 9:41:24 PM PST
Astrocat says:
Kathleen, that's the one I would use. The second one is, indeed, used as an insult, and I don't see any reason to go there.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 25, 2012 11:24:22 AM PST
It is not a question of trusting "a god," but of struggling with assorted revelations or notions that humans have received or conceived. For example, the philosopher-herdsman-nomad Zoroaster is credited with having conceived of God as the "uncreated Creator of the Universe." What do you make of Zoroaster's conception?

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 25, 2012 10:04:42 PM PST
Re OP: It can be shown that it is impossible, by any means, to obtain any information from or about any god. It follows at once that the question of "trusting" such a thing simply cannot arise.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 25, 2012 10:11:42 PM PST
Re Rosa, 2d above: A useless idea. How could one show this thesis to be wrong? Absent the possibility of doing so, it can convey no information: it doesn't tell us a thing about the way that the universe actually works, or how we can tweak it to work to our advantage.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 25, 2012 11:28:40 PM PST
Greg says:
because you are a little MOSQUITO and a FINITE.WE ALL ARE.EVEN THE ONES WITH 2 AND 3 PHDS.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 26, 2012 5:53:49 AM PST
Vicki says:
Dear Scientific Mind,

Yes, evil murderers in action are horrible. Death is horrible, even when there isn't an evil or crazy person involved, such as in the cancers or accidents that take the lives of our children.

IMO, evil and death are clues that something is terribly wrong in our world. It isn't as if God has been keeping this a secret- that evil exists and death exists. We see it all around us and we fool ourselves if we think that humanity is somehow improbing itself as we move ahead in knowledge and technology.

You have listed two conclusions about god that I can't agree with (that He doesn't exist or that He enjoys seeing us suffer). He exists, He doesn't enjoy seeing us suffer, and He will end evil and suffering at a point in the future. In the meantime, He has provided us a way to life through Jesus- a way that opens up a personal relationship with God who loves us and wants us to live victoriously even in the face of horrible adversity.
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Discussion in:  Religion forum
Participants:  23
Total posts:  76
Initial post:  Dec 23, 2012
Latest post:  Dec 28, 2012

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