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Oath Ceremony still includes "so help me God."


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Showing 1-25 of 79 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Nov 28, 2012 10:17:42 AM PST
R.M. says:
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Posted on Nov 28, 2012 10:25:33 AM PST
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Posted on Nov 28, 2012 10:38:11 AM PST
Art Franklin says:
Interesting. Shouldn't the oath be amended to say "so help me gods" to acknowledge that immigrants likely come from an array of various belief systems?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 28, 2012 10:41:56 AM PST
The Weasel says:
Art Franklin says:
Interesting. Shouldn't the oath be amended to say "so help me gods" to acknowledge that immigrants likely come from an array of various belief systems?
***
Just substiture "Almighty Dollar" wherever you hear or see "God" in the various governmental pledges, etc. Then it makes total sense.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 28, 2012 11:37:03 AM PST
Horse says: we have freedom of religion
not freedom from religion

JC: Very curious statement, seeing how this concept was not included in the Constitution, and if anything, the Constitution so strongly suggests the opposite that through the ages the Supreme Court- including famously conservative members- have consistently ruled that the Constitution does indeed guarantee "freedom from religion."

In addition, so many of the "founding fathers," being the Deists that they were, made this clear- especially in private letters, but in public pronouncements as well.

Tell me, horse:

1) What is it you know that all these wise and learned men through the ages didn't?

2) The concept of no "freedom from religion" could have so easily been inserted in the Constitution, and worded in a variety of ways. Why is this not the case?

3) If you were the President (one moment please, I have to catch my breath), how would you use your executive powers to enforce your belief that we do not have "freedom from religion"?

OK, your turn- once again provide us with one of your assertions, stated in a general way and unsupported with any relevant information or facts.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 28, 2012 1:34:23 PM PST
A. Caplan says:
andthehorseirodeinontoo? says: we have freedom of religion
not freedom from religion
>You can't have one without the other.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 28, 2012 3:50:38 PM PST
R.M. says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 28, 2012 3:56:52 PM PST
R.M. says:
> > andthehorseirodeinontoo? says:
> > we have freedom of religion
> > not freedom from religion
> A. Caplan says:
> You can't have one without the other.

Actually you can it one way. There are people and groups in the US that are trying to enforce "Freedom from religion" by ending the "Freedom of religion".

But I do agree that so long as we have Freedom of religion then we must allow Freedom from religion in as much as no one should be coerced into following any religion by the state.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 28, 2012 4:06:13 PM PST
Rick Maxon

'So help me god' is not required. For any government service.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 28, 2012 4:18:18 PM PST
[Deleted by the author on Nov 28, 2012 5:13:31 PM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 28, 2012 4:25:15 PM PST
RM

You were the one making the big deal about people saying 'so help me god' and feeling warm and comfy about it. I don't think anybody really cares if it's in there or not. All the people in the houses of congress have their pictures taking the oath with their hand on a holy book are only doing it for show.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 28, 2012 5:12:43 PM PST
[Deleted by the author on Nov 29, 2012 7:57:28 AM PST]

Posted on Nov 28, 2012 5:39:48 PM PST
I confess I was wrong on congress, I overestimated their commitment to the constitution.

But here's the president's

The Constitution specifies an oath of office only for the President:

US Constitution, Article II, Section 1

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States."

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 7:57:01 AM PST
[Deleted by the author on Nov 30, 2012 3:16:49 AM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 8:23:31 AM PST
G. Heron says:
Rick Maxon

I am British and live in Britain so can you tell me does the oath specify which god?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 8:30:53 AM PST
G. Heron says:
andthehorseirodeinontoo

"we have freedom of religion
not freedom from religion "

Over here in the UK we heard a lot of disagreement about the "ground zero mosque" (although I have heard that it didn't include a mosque) it seemed then that a lot of people wanted freedom from religion or at least from one religion.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 8:44:43 AM PST
Bubba says:
It doesn't say which god, it is likely to be what some of the nation's founders referred to as the "God of Nature" or "Nature's God".

The first paragraph of the Declaration of Independence specifies Nature's God:

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with one another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitles them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 9:52:41 AM PST
A. Caplan says:
Art Franklin says: Interesting. Shouldn't the oath be amended to say "so help me gods" to acknowledge that immigrants likely come from an array of various belief systems?
>The phrase should be dropped entirely to be inclusive of all beliefs or lack there of.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 10:00:55 AM PST
R.M. says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 10:09:19 AM PST
[Deleted by the author on Nov 30, 2012 3:14:20 AM PST]

Posted on Nov 29, 2012 10:15:15 AM PST
For one to have freedom of religion, one must be able to pursue one's faith as one sees fit... which would necessarily include a point of view which didn't also include a deity. Otherwise, how would freedom of religion be implemented in practice? "You must worship one of the deities on this list." ?

This point of view would be especially ironic coming from someone who believed that only one of the thousands of deities which humans have worshiped is the one, only, true, "real" deity. If such a person *also* claimed that there was no "freedom from religion", they would, if speaking honestly and directly, be claiming that everyone must be a member of a religion which worships their particular deity, and no other... that is, a member of some sect of one and only one religion... *theirs*.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 10:54:08 AM PST
I am a believer in God, but I think the things you described come very close to making people swear, "I believe in God" in order to become U.S. citizens. That is not and should not be part of immigration law.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 11:33:46 AM PST
Art Franklin says:
Rich Maxon said "But to clarify, there is only one God so the question of "which" is really rhetorical. "

Hi, I am a Hindi immigrant. Which of my Gods is the one I am asking for help?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 11:38:27 AM PST
[Deleted by the author on Nov 30, 2012 3:17:35 AM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 11:39:52 AM PST
Astrocat says:
Rick, "He" does not exist as an kind of viable entity or "god". To have to pledge in "His" name is disgusting. No one should be forced to do such a thing.
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Discussion in:  Religion forum
Participants:  17
Total posts:  79
Initial post:  Nov 28, 2012
Latest post:  Dec 3, 2012

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