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Gay Bullying Deaths and Religion: Are Believers the Problem or the Solution?


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Posted on Nov 15, 2012 2:29:11 PM PST
Alan says:
My other reply to Rick Mason, deleted by Amazon, was an unadorned reference to the fact that people who make homophobic remarks are bigots.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 11:49:03 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 15, 2012 11:55:20 AM PST
Alan says:
Rick Maxon,

"It seems we are all done talking about homosexuals who commit suicide due to untreated mental abnormalities and the inability to handle daily stress."

Yes, inability to cope with the daily stress from abuse by people who believe that their religion requires them to condemn their fellow men on the grounds of sexual orientation. No doubt you will be very familiar with such belief and behaviour.

My previous post which expressed the same idea in more direct language appears to have been deleted by Amazon. It is a pity they don't remove homophobic comments first.

Posted on Nov 15, 2012 11:45:39 AM PST
robb says:
I will agree to the "inability to handle daily stress."

However, most of that stress is because of people like you. You know, the ones who say "deny your core self." The ones who pound home - literally and figuratively - that homosexuality is bad (because the bible says so). The ones who think it is their god-given right and duty to hound gays and those there "perceive" as being gay.

Posted on Nov 15, 2012 11:39:30 AM PST
robb says:
Once again. Homosexual behavior is found in humans, other animals and insects. It is a part of nature. That makes it natural not a mental defect.

Just have to ask. Do you think left-handed people also have a mental defect?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 11:28:15 AM PST
Astrocat says:
And the "daily stress", would that be the kind of stress people like you heap upon them?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 11:28:00 AM PST
Alan says:
Rick Maxon

"It seems we are all done talking about homosexuals who commit suicide due to untreated mental abnormalities and the inability to handle daily stress."

Yes, daily stress from abuse by people like you.

Posted on Nov 15, 2012 11:25:59 AM PST
Alan says:
But Rick Maxon is a real bigot.

Posted on Nov 15, 2012 11:25:46 AM PST
[Deleted by the author on Jan 8, 2013 11:15:38 PM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 11:23:03 AM PST
Mens Sana says:
Rick Maxon: If you had done any learning then you'd know that devout Christians do not murder a 3 yr old boy.

Mens_Sana: Please read up a bit on the informal No True Scot fallacy that you just committed.

Alice: All Scotsmen enjoy haggis.
Bob: My uncle is a Scotsman, and he doesn't like haggis!
Alice: Well, all true Scotsmen like haggis.

In Scotland itself, the most famous rendition would be the former slogan of the one-time largest selling tabloid, The Daily Record, which proclaimed "Real Scots read The Record". The paper's editorials were always strongly in favour of the Scottish Labour Party; and, at the time, the paper's position as the largest-selling tabloid was under threat from Scottish versions of UK-wide publications such as The Scottish Sun. It was asserted that those who supported the Conservative Party or the Scottish National Party or who read English-owned papers were not "real Scots".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

Posted on Nov 15, 2012 11:21:30 AM PST
robb says:
Just remind me. There are NO contradictions in the bible?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 11:10:16 AM PST
[Deleted by the author on Jan 8, 2013 11:16:27 PM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 11:08:33 AM PST
Astrocat says:
Rick, I'm sitting here, open-mouthed and (nearly) speechless. My "vision of the world is so small"? Mine? Dear god, and yours is large and all-encompassing, yours is inclusive? I don't think so.

As far as hatred, no, I don't hate anyone, but I'd look in the mirror if I were you.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 11:06:46 AM PST
[Deleted by the author on Jan 8, 2013 11:16:06 PM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 11:05:43 AM PST
Mens Sana says:
Congratulations, Rick Maxon,

I'm glad to see that you are perceptive enough to realize that the Genesis Adam-Eve-Cain-Abel narratives are not literally true. That Land of Nod business surely does throw a wrench into the literalist machine. And the uninterrupted ruler lists in Egypt and China (not to speak of modern geology) blows the Flood story out of the water. :>)

Yet, I have to ask, if you cannot use questionable biblical rhetoric for seeing gays as you do, how do you reach your conclusions?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 10:58:34 AM PST
Astrocat says:
Rick, the "truth" is in the mind of the beholder. Many people have interpreted those verses you provided to mean that they really must "hate" everyone, and, with too many Christians that seems to have become the rallying cry, because there is enough hateful energy wrapped up in fundamental "Christianity" to fuel a rocket to the Moon. Get over the hatred and start working on compassion, how would that work for you?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 10:55:14 AM PST
Astrocat says:
"No, Tourette's can not be cured any more than alcoholism or drug addiction. But it can be controlled and the sufferer...can live a normal, happy life."

You could insert any "disease" in that slot and say pretty much the same thing, unless it's terminal cancer or some such. The thing is, and Rick undoubtedly won't agree with this, that homosexuality is a genetic gift to the person, just as talent in the arts is a genetic gift, and one's gender is a genetic gift. Homosexuality is not a disease, it's not even a "condition", it's a human quality - and not just humans, but other members of the animal kingdom, as well.

Posted on Nov 15, 2012 10:36:01 AM PST
robb says:
RM: "If you had some learning then you'd know that devout Christians do not murder a 3 year old boy."

Yes, I realize these are OT verses but ....

Leviticus 20:9 ESV /

For anyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother; his blood is upon him.

Exodus 21:15 ESV /

"Whoever strikes his father or his mother shall be put to death.

Leviticus 21:9 ESV /

And the daughter of any priest, if she profanes herself by whoring, profanes her father; she shall be burned with fire.

Isaiah 13:15-18 ESV /

Whoever is found will be thrust through, and whoever is caught will fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed in pieces before their eyes; their houses will be plundered and their wives ravished. Behold, I am stirring up the Medes against them, who have no regard for silver and do not delight in gold. Their bows will slaughter the young men; they will have no mercy on the fruit of the womb; their eyes will not pity children.

Posted on Nov 15, 2012 10:29:54 AM PST
robb says:
Matthew 6:24
King James Version (KJV)
24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

``````
I suppose I shouldn't point out that is exactly what the rich religious people do. And what has that got to do with my above quote or me?

Matthew 10:37
King James Version (KJV)
37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

```````
Decisions. Decisions. Decisions. Which verse do I go with.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 10:03:03 AM PST
R.M. says:
You will believe what you want to believe. But if you want to believe the truth then you must approach the word with an open heart to understanding.

These might help you. But I honestly doubt you really care to understand.
Mat 6:24
Mat 10:37

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 9:49:19 AM PST
Bubba says:
That is a 'No true Scotsman' argument, and it won't fly.

Posted on Nov 15, 2012 8:46:58 AM PST
robb says:
Luke 14:26
King James Version (KJV)
26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

That explains a lot

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 8:16:34 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 15, 2012 8:17:25 AM PST
Alan says:
Rick Maxon,

"If you had some learning then you'd know that devout Christians do not murder a 3 year old boy."

The boy was apparently killed by his father, his father was a devout Christian. This particular devout Christian, it seems, did murder this particular 3 year old boy.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 8:03:25 AM PST
R.M. says:
[Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Show post anyway. Show all unhelpful posts.]

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 7:30:36 AM PST
dischism says:
That's horrific, RL.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 7:29:42 AM PST
dischism says:
Rick

< I believe in God and accept the Bible as true; but you do not have belief. It is your lack of belief that is confusing you. If you have belief, as I do, then you have understanding. You are ready for neither, so an explanation of Cain's wife would be as lost on you as you are lost. >

Well, yet another post where you don't answer the question, because you can't without admitting logically there *must* be incest within this paradigm. I understand *far too much* for your liking. :)

< No, homosexuality can not be cured any more than alcoholism or drug addiction. But it can be controlled and the sufferer, (what, other than 'sufferer', would you call a person who sees suicide as a solution?), can live a normal happy life. >

Why would anyone who understands evidence from the natural world *want* to cure a perfectly natural if minority innate characteristic?

Suicides result from those who harass and torment LGBT because of their lack of understanding, which is informed by iron age tribesmen rather than the evidence based understanding that is easily accessible today.
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Discussion in:  Religion forum
Participants:  52
Total posts:  1171
Initial post:  Oct 9, 2010
Latest post:  Nov 15, 2012

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