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Do YOU Fear the Lord?


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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2012 11:43:27 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 18, 2012 11:43:50 PM PST
Re espinados, 2d above: Thanks for your posts. The final s's in your screen name were our clue. It appears that you are as much a mongrel as most other Americans -- including, of course, me (English, German, Dutch, and I have no idea what else).

I knew a chap in school who was of Greek extraction; his name was Diamantis Drakos Preonas. (Good guy.)

Posted on Nov 18, 2012 11:37:33 PM PST
I know more Spanish than zero, but the mistake is still possible, with the "z" and "os" endings. You made the case for me!

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2012 11:32:12 PM PST
RE: I thought you were Greek, too.

That's funny to me, since I have an obviously Spanish screen name. But if you knew no Spanish at all, zero, I can see how it might sort of look like Greek with the "z" and the "os" endings.

My heritage is actually Swedish and then some mix of Czech and Hungarian...born in US, grandparents were immigrants.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2012 10:32:13 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 18, 2012 10:32:39 PM PST
"I'm not sure where you got that impression." Your Amazon name, of course! I thought you were Greek, too.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2012 10:27:05 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 18, 2012 10:28:00 PM PST
RE; It sounds as though you may be of Greek heritage, and if you have a better take on what is going on there, it would be of interest to hear about it.

I'm not sure where you got that impression, but I'm not Greek.

I've been there....and I've known Greeks. I thought Greeks were generally nice when I was there. The stongest impression I have of Greeks is that when I was attending a language school many years ago in Germany, the group of Greeks there kept to themselves and rarely socialized with anyone who was not Greek. People told me that it was a superiority over other cultures thing; I don't know, but it's true how they kept almost completely to themselves.

I've always thought of that as rather anecdotal, which it, in fact, is. I have no idea if any such an attitude is pervasive, or even if really exists at all. It's always made me wonder, but I suspect that people are people everywhere and this was some sort of anomaly.

So there you have everything, the sum total of all my Greek experiences. Learning the Greek alphabet at a college frat house doesn't qualify.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2012 10:10:50 PM PST
Re zapatos espinados, 11-18 2:08 PM: It sounds as though you may be of Greek heritage, and if you have a better take on what is going on there, it would be of interest to hear about it.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2012 10:08:06 PM PST
Re Altarriba, 11-18 2:02 PM: "I don't think the phrase "unbridled altruism" accurately describes a cause of the Greek economic failure." Perhaps we should like a more precise term, but that is what it amounts to: many benefits for persons who have not earned them, attempted to be paid for by taking from people who have earned these benefits but do not get them. (Of course, the tax "system" in Greece is rife with cheating and evasion...)

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2012 10:04:37 PM PST
Re tokolosi, 11-18 12:36 PM: "progressive tax system, something we aren't even close to at present." Factually inaccurate. The present system is highly progressive, not only in the nominal rates, but in the additional taxes arising from phase-out of various deductions.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2012 3:22:34 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 18, 2012 3:23:36 PM PST
I can honestly say that I've never met nor heard of anyone who believes in unbridled altruism. As for the European countries you mention, well, I don't intend to get into a political discussion, but I suspect the explanation for their financial difficulties is a little more complex than you state.

Re #2: "One wonders?" I don't. It was widely discussed in the presidential campaign, and has been exhaustively reported on since. What I wonder is, well, why you're wondering about it; why, that is, you're not aware of what has been said. I will point out something else that's been widely reported, which is the fact that the top tax rate was 4% higher under Bill Clinton than it is now, yet somehow the economy boomed during his presidency.

edited for clarity

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2012 2:08:53 PM PST
Yes, it was a poor choice of words in the first place.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2012 2:02:55 PM PST
I don't think the phrase "unbridled altruism" accurately describes a cause of the Greek economic failure.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2012 12:36:54 PM PST
tokolosi says:
Perhaps Obama is trying to reestablish something approaching a reasonable, progressive tax system, something we aren't even close to at present.

Posted on Nov 18, 2012 12:27:50 PM PST
Re two posts above: By "unbridled altruism", I mean the thesis that one must always look out for everyone less privileged than oneself -- i.e., that every other person has an enforceable claim on your earnings which is as strong as your own. It is this thesis which Rand was inveighing against in her dystopia.

"No state I know is in the business of unbridled altruism." Many of the European states are close to this -- which is why Greece is bankrupt and Spain, Portugal, and Italy are nearly so [1]. And Obama's passion to further tax the "rich" [2], which he has been flogging since his FIRST election campaign, is part and parcel of this.

1. The exception is the eastern European states, such as Poland and Hungary, whose experience with Communism has taught them the folly of this approach.
2. At present, the top 1% of income earners are paying 40% of Federal income taxes. One wonders how much higher Obama wants this to go.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2012 7:59:05 AM PST
What, exactly, is "unbridled altruism"?

Also, if one lives in a modern, densely populated, technological, interconnected society, then I'd say that one helps "Number One" *by* helping the community, as the two are intertwined.

Objectivism is the nothing more than an attempt to legitimize petty, shortsighted selfishness. I've often find its devotees amongst those who had privileged upbringings, came to believe they really *were* the center of the universe, and who never learned to share, or empathize with those who weren't as privileged.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2012 7:47:56 AM PST
Unbridled altruism? I'm not even sure what that means, frankly. No state I know is in the business of unbridled altruism. No person I know advocates unbridled altruism. Your last sentence - the one which starts with "There is nothing morally wrong" - puts it quite nicely. We are all, people and governments alike, a mixture of me first and let me help you, and that seems reasonable to me.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 17, 2012 9:22:36 PM PST
Re LifelongAtheist, 11-17 7:29 PM: "Objectivism is just an excuse for selfishness." I quite agree. But the point of the book was that unbridled altruism, especially if sponsored by the state, is destructive -- and I agree with this. There is nothing morally wrong with first looking out for Number One, but one may choose to also look out for those people about whom one cares: spouse, children, parents, and the like (although Rand did not make this point).

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 17, 2012 7:29:55 PM PST
I thought she was a nasty elitist, and her so-called philosophy is crap. If you've ever read "Atlas Shrugged" you'll realize how much she hated and scorned ordinary people. As far as I'm concerned, Objectivism is just an excuse for selfishness.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 17, 2012 7:29:06 PM PST
Only to people who don't have the intelligence to understand it.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 17, 2012 5:49:52 PM PST
RE: We are talking about drag queens and homosexuals, Alan. THEY have no decency.

You don't have to keep outdoing yourself in the pathetic department. You've already lapped the rest of the field.

Ooh, baby.....are you ever a piece of work!

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 17, 2012 5:40:17 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 17, 2012 5:44:38 PM PST
RE: Someday it will be legal to beat the crap out of drag queens. The backlash is coming.

That's pathetic by any standard, anywhere.

A normal person would have to try really hard to reach that level of pathetic.

Was it easy for you?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 17, 2012 5:12:52 PM PST
Re Lifelong Atheist, 11-17 4:52 PM: "I scorn Ayn Rand ..." Interesting. I would find it interesting to learn why.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 17, 2012 5:01:36 PM PST
You're right is wasn't subtle. It was nonexistent.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 17, 2012 4:52:31 PM PST
My basis of right and wrong - no scare quotes needed - doesn't include 2000-year-old writings. I scorn Ayn Rand, but she makes more sense than your imaginary sky friends.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 17, 2012 4:51:43 PM PST
Or maybe I'm posting to someone who's too dense to understand. It wasn't very subtle.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 17, 2012 4:51:17 PM PST
You're free to believe whatever idiotic thing you want, and it's clear you use that freedom very often. It ain't that complicated: it's ridiculous.
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This discussion

Discussion in:  Religion forum
Participants:  35
Total posts:  199
Initial post:  Nov 12, 2012
Latest post:  Nov 18, 2012

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