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If there was no literal Garden of Eden, how does one explain the concept of "original sin"?


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Showing 1-16 of 16 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Dec 16, 2012 11:28:12 PM PST
eonxl says:
I am happy to find that most of the Christians I run into these days no longer believe in a literal Garden of Eden, but I can't find anyone who can explain original sin without the benefit of that parable.

How do evolution/intelligence design Christians avoid the obvious conclusion that God allowed us to evolve in a fallen state and then holds us accountable for being in that fallen state?

The parable of the Garden of Eden has been used in the past to solve this problem by suggesting an illusion of choice (though not very well -- if they hadn't yet eaten of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, how did they know they were doing anything wrong?) and blaming it on Eve...

But how does this new wave of educated Christians explain the theological problem that inevitably comes from dropping a literal interpretation of the Garden of Eden?

Can anyone who thinks this way explain how they have reconciled this problem?

Thanks. --eric

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 12:04:14 AM PST
Re OP: Simple: the concept is simply nonsense. And your "obvious conclusion" is of course quite correct.

How can any rational being suppose that one entity can, by any action whatever, "atone" for the "sins" of another? This is so obviously silly that I recognized the foolishness when I was all of eight years old.

Posted on Dec 17, 2012 1:21:31 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 17, 2012 1:30:06 AM PST
eonxl says:
Robert -- While in essence I agree with you, and I too have been unable to reconcile this problem... my point in asking the question was to find out how other people have thought through this issue. I find that I often learn new ways of looking at an issue by listening to others who have dealt with the same problem and found a different solution. Sometimes I even miss things...

But that is why my question wasn't directed to YOU... you already agree with me. I have nothing new to learn from you.

But thanks for visiting the thread anyway... --e

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 7:21:22 AM PST
tokolosi says:
The entire house of cards that is Christianity falls apart without the literal interpretation of the A&E story: No "original sin", no need for a "redeemer". Jesus and all he represents becomes pointless.

(offering my 2 cents even though you certainly won't learn anything new from my opinion either... ;-)

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 7:48:07 AM PST
Your response to Robert is verging on impolite, just in case you didn't realize.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 7:49:39 AM PST
Doog37 says:
The concept of original sin is a way to trap people into needing forgiveness or absolution. It is no different than going to a "spritiual advisor" who says there is a curse on you and if you dont pay you will be cursed forever.
I beleive the concept of original sin is the reason that many Conservatives act and believe as they do. If you believe in original sin you believe that to some extent we are all evil. In doing so they push for laws and societal measures that are set to deal with people who are evil. Their first reaction to people even if just at a subconcious level is distrust (well unless you belong to their church and can see you are forgiven).
If you can't ever be pure unless X then you are forever trapped by X.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 8:53:11 AM PST
G. Heron says:
eonxi

Thanks for demonstrating how being an atheist greatly simplifies things.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 8:59:30 AM PST
Jeff Marzano says:
eonxl says:

[Can anyone who thinks this way explain how they have reconciled this problem ?]

I can tell you what Edgar Cayce said about Adam And Eve if you're interested.

The Adam And Eve event happened at 5 different places on Earth simultaneously. Five races were created based on the human senses:

white - vision
yellow - hearing
brown - smell
red - feelings and emotions
black - carnal / sexual

Cayce said Adam and Christ are the same person although Adam was apparently not in the human form we have now. This gets into the idea that he human body has been in different forms in the past. Right now our bodies are in a dense, animalistic state.

According to Cayce the Christ spirit has incarnated into our world some 30 times going back to Atlantis and Lemuria.

The Book Of Genesis is mythological. Mythology uses allegories and metaphors to explain spiritual truths in a symbolic, not a literal, way. Like when it says Eve was created from Adam's rib this means Eve was created by dividing Adam's soul. Adam and Eve are twin souls or 'soul mates'.

This makes Eve a goddess since she is the twin soul of God. This is probably how Zeus and those others came into being also.

The Adam And Eve event was inevitable. The story indicates that the human race had to gain a certain amount of independence from God to express its free will.

I guess it's symbolic in the sense that Adam sinned by eating from a 'tree' and then Christ was killed on a tree or wooden cross.

Former atheist Howard Storm had an NDE where he went into the waiting room of Hell for a time. After the sexual assault down in Hell Howard was given a second chance and taken to heaven where he was allowed to ask many interesting questions.

Howard was told that within 200 years on planet Earth people will be living in small tribes. If they want something to eat they will put a seed into the ground and the plant will grow to maturity in a few short hours. This to me sounds like a return to the Garden Of Eden.

We today have lost great knowledge that once existed on planet Earth. It is possible to manipulate and defeat the force of gravity for example. That's how the stones were moved and positioned to create the pyramids in Egypt and other places.

Also the human body has the ability to regenerate internal organs, damaged limbs, and other body parts. In ancient Egypt the priests used energy rods which generated both light and sound to stimulate the body's ability to regenerate itself. Doctors today are trying to do this using stem cells and pig tissue.

Jeff Marzano

Edgar Cayce's Story of the Origin and Destiny of Man

Edgar Cayce's Story of the Old Testament From the Birth of Souls to the Death of Moses

Lives of the Master: The Rest of the Jesus Story

My Descent Into Death and the Message of Love Which Brought Me Back

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 9:12:29 AM PST
logical fallacy

false hypotheis

what a waste of time bloviating about nonsense

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 9:20:48 AM PST
Re Duerdoth, 12-17 7:48 AM: Relax. I take no umbrage at eonxl's post. (I tend to reserve that for the know-nothings that don't agree with me...)

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 11:26:36 AM PST
About 33 years ago, I had a discussion with a Catholic priest/theologian. What used to be called "original sin," is now referred to as a "defect" by current theologians. "Salvation history" is the term used to describe how God has revealed himself to humans so that we may overcome this innate "defect."

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 11:29:55 AM PST
Astrocat says:
eonxi, that mythology from Genesis was misinterpreted and twisted about by such as Augustine, especially, actually, by Augustine. Just look at some of his writings. Why and how Christians bought into it is another story that is very nicely described by Elaine Pagels in "Adam and Eve and the Serpent." I recommend it.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 11:42:47 AM PST
Ariex says:
Doog37 says: "The concept of original sin is a way to trap people into needing forgiveness or absolution. It is no different than going to a "spritiual advisor" who says there is a curse on you and if you dont pay you will be cursed forever."

Ariex: This is probably the original intention of those who fabricated the story.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 11:45:23 AM PST
Ariex says:
Domenico Rosa says: "About 33 years ago, I had a discussion with a Catholic priest/theologian. .... God has revealed himself to humans so that we may overcome this innate "defect."

Ariex: Do those theologians have an explanation for why an omnipotent and loving god would deliberately (God doesn't make mistakes) create defective people? Explain one problem and another takes its place. So much more reasonable to recognize the story for what it is, ancient superstion.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 12:03:48 PM PST
Ariex asked: "Do those theologians have an explanation for why an omnipotent and loving god would deliberately (God doesn't make mistakes) create defective people?"

The priest/theologian had no explanation for why humans are born with "some type of defect"--a notion that is supported by overwhelming empirical evidence spanning millennia. His concern was with "Salvation history"--the term used to describe how God has revealed himself to humans so that we may overcome this innate "defect."

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 3:38:47 PM PST
yes

it is simple
if you care to actually think about all of it
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Discussion in:  Religion forum
Participants:  11
Total posts:  16
Initial post:  Dec 16, 2012
Latest post:  Dec 17, 2012

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