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Why does God deliberately make life difficult for some people?


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Initial post: Mar 18, 2013 10:15:28 AM PDT
Iain says:
If we read the Bible, that he does so is beyond dispute, and he does so in a variety of ways, from causing blindness to interfering with free will.

Why?

Iain

Posted on Mar 18, 2013 10:18:05 AM PDT
Karma from a past life.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 10:27:52 AM PDT
Iain says:
Dear Antediluvian Priestess,

I'm pretty sure Christians would disagree.

Iain

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 10:44:41 AM PDT
Iain:

"And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him." John 9:1-3

The question you ask defies simple or simplistic answers. The answer does exist however, if you are willing to accept that not knowing details is an answer.

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." Rom 5:12

What you have labeled "Difficulty" comes from the fact that we dwell in a fallen world. Any one person's particularly difficult situation may vary somewhat for exact cause (if any) and reason or purpose (if any). But you'll not find the answer to the question of a particular case except that it's a result of the fall. Beyond that the reason for everything will be made known to us in the life to come. For now, however, we are called to endure the difficulties of life, knowing, as St. Paul wrote, "we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; And patience, experience; and experience, hope: And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. (Romans 5:1-5)

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 10:58:50 AM PDT
Iain says:
Dear Johann Niemand,

So put briefly you're saying that others suffer physical deficiencies because of Adam and Eve. Or am I oversimplifying?

Iain

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 11:11:32 AM PDT
Iain:

You put it beautifully and succinctly. Much better than me. Kudos.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 11:17:29 AM PDT
Iain says:
Dear Mr. Niemand,

In that case why are we told that God "makes" people mute, deaf or blind? If physical deficiencies are a result of The Fall, are a sign of our sinful nature, why does God have to continue to actually create such deficiencies?

I'm referring to Exodus 4:11 and the surrounding verses for context.

Iain

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 11:20:45 AM PDT
Amy Hall says:
Iain, because your god doesn't exist, that's why. I know that's not what you wanted to hear. I was a Xtian for 10-15 years, and full of bible study up the ying-yang.

You must accept that fact that the bible has been edited, deleted, and censored to the point where nothing makes sense. You think anything with "king James version" is going to allow for texts regarding the female goddess, homosexuality and feminism? Of course not.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 11:39:28 AM PDT
Iain says:
Dear Lucy (If I may be so informal),

Oddly enough, the second part of your argument could be read as a defence of those passages in which some would argue God is shown in a bad light because it suggests that the text has been interfered with.

Anyway, God's existence isn't really the issue. My question is about why God as he's portrayed in the Bible seems to be a bit hard on his creation.

Iain

Posted on Mar 18, 2013 12:08:58 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 18, 2013 12:09:22 PM PDT
Amy Hall says:
Iain, you know, it's one thing to discuss things; I like that, whether I agree or not. But what you're doing is NOT reading to comprehend other's posts. If you don't understand it, then say so, but to willfully repeat your question again, without regarding what's already been to replied to in your first post is just...

...ignorance. You're ignoring other's replies.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 12:16:26 PM PDT
Jeff Marzano says:
Iain says:

[Why ?]

Well there's the Parable Of The Weeds. God allows evil in the world.

Matthew 13:24-30

The Parable of the Weeds

24 Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

27 "The owner's servants came to him and said, `Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'

28 "`An enemy did this,' he replied.

"The servants asked him, `Do you want us to go and pull them up?'

29 "`No,' he answered, `because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.'"

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 12:22:11 PM PDT
Iain says:
Dear Lucy,

From yours: "without regarding what's already been to replied to in your first post is just...

...ignorance. You're ignoring other's replies. "

I'm sorry. I thought I'd addressed your reply.

I asked why in the Bible God seems to create difficulties for his creation, and your first response was "..because your god doesn't exist."

I was trying to be polite by pointing out that God's existence isn't the issue. However, since you're charging me with ignorance, may I ask how "...because your god doesn't exist" addresses my question. I ask why God does what he does, and you reply "because" he doesn't exist.

I'm having trouble following that.

Iain

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 12:22:45 PM PDT
Jeff Marzano says:
Antediluvian Priestess says:

[Karma from a past life.]

I agree this is a possible cause for suffering.

Edgar Cayce told a guy he was the reincarnation of King Belshazzar. This king had taken the sacred goblets and vessels from the temple and used them during a drunken feast. At some point during the party he saw a disembodied hand writing on the wall.

During the later life experience in the 20th century this guy wasn't doing too well. Cayce said he was experiencing bad karma from what he had done as Belshazzar.

Edgar Cayce on the Reincarnation of Biblical Characters [Paperback]
Kevin J. Todeschi (Author)

Daniel 5

The Writing on the Wall

5 King Belshazzar gave a great banquet for a thousand of his nobles and drank wine with them. 2 While Belshazzar was drinking his wine, he gave orders to bring in the gold and silver goblets that Nebuchadnezzar his father[a] had taken from the temple in Jerusalem, so that the king and his nobles, his wives and his concubines might drink from them. 3

So they brought in the gold goblets that had been taken from the temple of God in Jerusalem, and the king and his nobles, his wives and his concubines drank from them. 4 As they drank the wine, they praised the gods of gold and silver, of bronze, iron, wood and stone.

5 Suddenly the fingers of a human hand appeared and wrote on the plaster of the wall, near the lamp stand in the royal palace. The king watched the hand as it wrote. 6 His face turned pale and he was so frightened that his legs became weak and his knees were knocking.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 12:25:52 PM PDT
Iain says:
Dear Mr. Marzano,

From yours: "Well there's the Parable Of The Weeds. God allows evil in the world."

Are you suggesting deafness is an evil or that the deaf are evil?

Also, the Exodus passage doesn't say that God allows evil as such, just that he creates deafness, muteness, and blindness.

Iain

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 12:50:59 PM PDT
Jeff Marzano says:
Iain says:

[Are you suggesting deafness is an evil or that the deaf are evil ?]

No but the point is if God allows evil in the world those evil people are going to hurt others in many ways. That's inevitable. All evil hurts someone or something. The Italian mafia is a good example.

Physical problems can cause people to have a different perspective on things. That's part of their spiritual journey.

However I think there are cases where Christ associated suffering with sin. There's the story where they lifted this guy down through the roof because they wanted the Lord to heal him.

But instead Christ said: "Your sins are forgiven."

◄ Luke 5:23 ►

Which is easier: to say, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Get up and walk'?

Posted on Mar 18, 2013 12:55:10 PM PDT
Karen says:
God doesn't cause suffering. He allows suffering. God wants us to trust Him, love Him, and be patient while we suffer. If we do this, we will be rewarded when we die and go to our heavenly home. And that is what we must always keep our eyes on, our heavenly home. We are just passing through this life. We are here to prepare our souls for eternity. We do that by loving God, and loving others. If you remember that, and remember that love = sacrifice, you will do well. In other words, people confuse love with affection. Affection is an emotion. Love is an act. Show love to others and you will be happy in spite of life's problems, and you will be rewarded when you get to the other side, where your real home is.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 12:56:55 PM PDT
Iain says:
Dear Karen,

From yours: "God doesn't cause suffering. He allows suffering."

Read Exodus 4:11 and get back to me.

Iain

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 1:22:23 PM PDT
IFeelFree says:
The Bible was written by men who had a very different worldview than our own. Much of it is tribal and mythical in nature. To treat it as the exalted "word of God" is foolishness. To accept it uncritically is to be willingly naive. No written words can always be true for all time. Belief in the actions of an anthropomorphic tribal deity is a very primitive level of understanding, perhaps appropriate to the illiterate people of ancient times, but unenlightened silliness in the 21st century.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 2:09:44 PM PDT
Karen says:
I am not talking about the teachings of the Old Testament or the Torah. I am talking about the New Testament. I have no idea what happened in the Old Testament, nor do I care. But I do know what Jesus and His apostles taught.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 2:15:23 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 18, 2013 2:16:06 PM PDT
Karen says:
People always judge what they do not understand.

So I am not surprised that you would feel that way about the bible. But why tell other Christians who do believe that it is God's word? If you are so intelligent and open minded, why do you want to put down the beliefs of someone else? Doing that shows that you are ignorant one, not the bible believers.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 2:45:33 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 18, 2013 3:37:17 PM PDT
Iain says:
Dear Karen,

From yours: "I have no idea what happened in the Old Testament, nor do I care."

So as far as you're concerned, the Old Testament is irrelevant? Is that correct?

Iain

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 3:14:46 PM PDT
IFeelFree says:
K: People always judge what they do not understand.

IFF: People also "judge" or criticize what they understand. They criticize the falseness of it. What other response is appropriate? How can you agree with something you see as false?

K: But why tell other Christians who do believe that it is God's word? If you are so intelligent and open minded, why do you want to put down the beliefs of someone else?

IFF: Because they so often cling to illusions about the Bible. Truth is all that matters. A necessary part of seeing the truth is recognizing one's false beliefs. When you treat the Bible as the Word of God, you are creating an idol, a false God. You have taken "a sacred book" much of which is tribal and mythical in nature, and you also worship it. It is infallible. It is inerrant. It is the exalted "word" of God. This is foolishness. To think that these static words written by long dead men thousands of years ago can be "the living word of God" -- this is truly putting faith in flesh and blood. It is to assume so much. It is to be willingly naive. It is to take on faith things that should not be. I will accept it as "inspired" as long as we understand what the word means. An inspiration is not "God" in any form taking over your body and causing you to write words that will always be truth for all time. No sacred book is. That is to ignore too many facts and assume too many miracles. 


Doubt. Question. It is dishonest not to. Do you know what a rational mind is? One that understand how fully irrational a human mind can be. Unless you have seen clearly how irrational your mind can be, you do not actually possess a rational mind. Only a clear mind can be rational. 


This is one of Jesus' teachings "The eye is the lamp of the body (your mind -- views, opinions, beliefs, desires, likes, dislikes, doctrines, etc.) are the "eye" you view "fact" with, your rational calculations, your measurement, and if it is clear, the "whole body is filled with light". Remove the false and there is a light in you. This light is the kingdom of heaven, the presence of truth, the timeless. Jesus said if the eye is not clear the light you see is really darkness.

Let go of all those systems put together by thought, built up on half-truths, locked in static words carefully arranged and cross-referenced. This is plastic religion. This is idolatry. 


Deal with the fact before you. Stop being so filled with your false ideas about your identity, your self. Stop dreaming you could be anything but that one Spirit. Stop worshiping these idols in Jesus' absence. Stop believing these doctrines that separate, but realize what they are pointing to. 

Put down your idols, your objects of authority and assumptions about things you cannot and need not know. You never needed that tree of knowledge, how well has it served you?

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 3:17:47 PM PDT
It's been my experience that lots of people judge what they *do* understand.

This is a discussion forum, not a prayer meeting. If you can't abide having your beliefs challenged, you probably shouldn't be here.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 3:22:25 PM PDT
Iain says:
Dear LifelongAtheist,

From yours: "This is a discussion forum, not a prayer meeting. If you can't abide having your beliefs challenged, you probably shouldn't be here."

That's a bit unfair, isn't it? The woman was expressing her opinion; she didn't simply post scripture with no comment.

Iain

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 4:59:15 PM PDT
No, I don't agree. I think it's fair. The quoted sentence - the one at which my remark was directed - is this:

" So I am not surprised that you would feel that way about the bible. But why tell other Christians who do believe that it is God's word? If you are so intelligent and open minded, why do you want to put down the beliefs of someone else? Doing that shows that you are ignorant one, not the bible believers. "

I read this as her being upset / offended / outraged at those who post and disagree with what Christians believe and say; IOW, the sort of behavior you'd expect - well, I'd expect - at a prayer meeting or a fellowship forum. That may not have been what she *meant*, but I'm not a mind reader and that's how her remark struck me.
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Discussion in:  Religion forum
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Initial post:  Mar 18, 2013
Latest post:  Apr 12, 2013

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