Customer Discussions > Religion forum

Why Are Atheists So Obsessed With Religion?


Sort: Oldest first | Newest first
Showing 26-50 of 1000 posts in this discussion
Posted on Jan 29, 2012 12:38:59 PM PST
Lj3d says:
I think its fair to say there are atheists who are obsessed with religion. Having said that, I just don't think they are nearly as large in numbers as highly vocal religious people. Atheism has always been a minority. But growing up, I recall being told atheism was kicking religion out of school. School prayer etc. It seemed the atheists of the 1960s and 70s were prevailing. Then came the Moral Majority and the religious right movements. Now they seem to have the edge. Politicians wern't very vocal about their beliefs until the Reagan era. Now they all clamor to show how religious they are. Any vocal atheists today are largely responding to the influence religion has on America today which appears to me to be much greater than it was in the 1960s and 70s.

Posted on Jan 29, 2012 12:45:02 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 29, 2012 12:46:26 PM PST
Obelix says:
So long as there people sounding off that 9/11 was God's punishment for tolerating homosexuality and the like, there will be sane people around to tell them 'you are mad.'

Deal with it.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 12:45:21 PM PST
Mr. Krinkle says:
R.H.: Salman Rushdie is an atheist and you don't see him rushing around hollering about "no God".

Are you sure about that?

Rushdie has an essay in Hitchen's book The Portable Atheist: Essential Readings for the Nonbeliever

Here is an atheism based essay written by Rushdie: http://peaceinvisible.com/2009/06/17/imagine-there-is-no-heaven-a-letter-to-the-six-billionth-world-citizen-by-salman-rushdie/

There are numerous interviews where Rushdie talks about God and his atheism, and denounces Islamic fundamentalism.

His books often focus on the role of religion in society and conflicts between faiths and between the religious and those of no faith.

He is a public signatory of the MANIFESTO: Together facing the new totalitarianism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MANIFESTO:_Together_facing_the_new_totalitarianism

The manifesto is signed largely by professed atheists, many of them "non-Western."

He writes editorials, such as the one below, advocating a stronger, anti-religion atheism.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1409126/posts
http://quackfiles.blogspot.com/2005/06/just-give-me-that-old-time-atheism.html

Ayn Hirsi Ali is not a typical Westerner, yet she is vocal about her atheism, and outspoken against religion, especially radical Islam.

Ibn Warraq, also an outspoken atheist, is not Western.

Taslima Nasrin, also an outspoken atheist, is not a Westerner.

In fact, there are many such non-Western atheists who are outspoken, not only as atheists, but against religious extremism as well.

Perhaps your hypothesis is flawed, or perhaps you simply think these non-Westerners are actually Westernized?

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 12:47:45 PM PST
Mr. Krinkle says:
Counting down until we get that tedious, substance free, immature post from Mac we see in almost every thread....

Whoops. My mistake. Too late.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 12:48:36 PM PST
Mr. Krinkle says:
Or, maybe he is simply wrong about this being unique to "Western" atheists, and wrong about Rushdie as well.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 12:50:51 PM PST
R. Hanley says:
Problems with your argument: First as I said this behavior is not generally seen in non-Western atheists, second, Atheists have been engaging in conversion seeking behavior for decades(Robert Greene Ingersoll, Bertrand Russell, Lenin, Stalin, etc.) and third Communism is/was one of the largest evangelical religions on earth. All of which far predates the Moral Majority. Western atheists are steeped in the tradition of converting others. They can't help it. Peter Hitchens is an evangelical. His brother Christopher was a militant atheist. Runs in the family in this case.
-

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 12:51:27 PM PST
Lj3d says:
I remember the Rushdie bru ha ha. I've never read any of his works and I'm not even sure if he is religious or atheist.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 12:55:04 PM PST
Mr. Krinkle says:
Rushdie is an outspoken atheist, who had a fatwa issued against him for his book "Satanic Verses." After the fatwa, in hopes of having it removed, or lessening the danger to his life, he proclaimed a return to Islam. Later, he admitted that this was simply a ploy to try and remove the death sentence placed on him, and he became increasingly outspoken about his atheism and increasingly critical of Islam.

Posted on Jan 29, 2012 12:55:15 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 29, 2012 12:57:33 PM PST
Obelix says:
Communism is an ideology - and an extremely daft one - but not a religion.

Peter Hitchens is nothing more than an overpaid troll, and has a habit of blaming the facts that his books don't sell and audiences repeatedly boo him off TV shows on a 'liberal conspiracy'.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 12:56:59 PM PST
Mr. Krinkle says:
R. Hanley says:
Problems with your argument: First as I said this behavior is not generally seen in non-Western atheists,

K: Except that there are many, many non-Western atheists who demonstrate this behavior, and this includes famous ones, and common people on internet forums such as this one. And, as I showed, you were wrong in your example of Rushdie as well.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 1:01:35 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 29, 2012 1:06:16 PM PST
Lj3d says:
I remember Rushdie having a fatwa issued against him, and the book "Satanic Verses." I just couldn't recall if he was simply rejecting his Islamic religion for some other or if he was Atheist. Thanks for clearing it up for me Mr. Krinkle.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 1:03:05 PM PST
Mr. Krinkle says:
His book "Satanic Verses" did not reject Islam, it was a fictional account that amounted to heresy in the view of many.

Posted on Jan 29, 2012 1:04:02 PM PST
Hinch says:
"The bigotry of the nonbeliever is for me nearly as funny as the bigotry of the believer." (Albert Einstein)

"Then there are the fanatical atheists whose intolerance is the same as that of the religious fanatics, and it springs from the same source . . . They are creatures who can't hear the music of the spheres." (Albert Einstein)

"In the view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognise, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what makes me really angry is that they quote me for support for such views." (The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton University Press, p. 214)

"What separates me from most so-called atheists is a feeling of utter humility toward the unattainable secrets of the harmony of the cosmos." (Albert Einstein to Joseph Lewis, Apr. 18, 1953)

"When the answer is simple, God is speaking. "(Albert Einstein)

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 1:05:11 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 29, 2012 1:05:40 PM PST
Mr. Krinkle says:
Problems with your argument. First, many non-Westerners do in fact exhibit the behavior you claim is unique to Westerners. Second, for many non-Westerners, such behavior is equal to a death sentence, or in the least, being ostracized and imprisoned.

Posted on Jan 29, 2012 1:05:32 PM PST
[Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Show post anyway. Show all unhelpful posts.]

Posted on Jan 29, 2012 1:06:11 PM PST
Obelix says:
Contextless quote mining achieves nothing, chum.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 1:06:49 PM PST
Lj3d says:
He stepped on some serious toes, thats for sure.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 1:07:38 PM PST
Mr. Krinkle says:
You are very, very mistaken:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/thermo/probability.html

http://2ndlaw.oxy.edu/evolution.html

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 1:07:59 PM PST
Mr. Krinkle says:
Yup.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 1:09:56 PM PST
Hinch says:
In or out of context the said what he said.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 1:10:33 PM PST
S. Friedman says:
I spend time and energy discussing it because although I have no religion of my own, the religion of other people affects my life.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 1:11:26 PM PST
Mr. Krinkle says:
What is this, a fallacious appeal to authority based on an incorrect understanding of Einstein's views?

The following is not offered as evidence of anything more than what Einstein actually thought regarding God, nature, and religion:

Einstein said if he can believe in any God, it is the God of Spinoza. This means the universe as God, God as a single substance, the totality of nature, all that exists, and it means a world based on determinism.

This does not just rejection of God as a lawgiver, but rejection of "God" as anything with concern for mankind. It leaves Einstein an agnostic that allows for the possibility of the existence of something we may call "God" but not anything resembling a theological concept of God.

This "God" may as well just be called nature.

I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotisms.
-- Albert Einstein

It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere.... Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.
-- Albert Einstein, "Religion and Science," New York Times Magazine, 9 November 1930

I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves. Neither can I nor would I want to conceive of an individual that survives his physical death; let feeble souls, from fear or absurd egoism, cherish such thoughts. I am satisfied with the mystery of the eternity of life and with the awareness and a glimpse of the marvelous structure of the existing world, together with the devoted striving to comprehend a portion, be it ever so tiny, of the Reason that manifests itself in nature.
-- Albert Einstein, The World as I See It

"For me the Jewish religion like all others is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions." January 3 1954 Letter to the philosopher Eric Gutkind

"The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. January 3 1954 Letter to the philosopher Eric Gutkind

"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." Einstein in 1950

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.

- Albert Einstein, letter to an atheist (1954), quoted in Albert Einstein: The Human Side,

I received your letter of June 10th. I have never talked to a Jesuit priest in my life and I am astonished by the audacity to tell such lies about me. From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist. [Albert Einstein to Guy H. Raner Jr, July 2, 1945, responding to a rumor that a Jesuit priest had caused Einstein to convert from atheism.

"A man who is convinced of the truth of his religion is indeed never tolerant. At the least, he is to feel pity for the adherent of another religion but usually it does not stop there. The faithful adherent of a religion will try first of all to convince those that believe in another religion and usually he goes on to hatred if he is not successful. However, hatred then leads to persecution when the might of the majority is behind it.

In the case of a Christian clergyman, the tragic-comical is found in this: that the Christian religion demands love from the faithful, even love for the enemy. This demand, because it is indeed superhuman, he is unable to fulfill. Thus intolerance and hatred ring through the oily words of the clergyman. The love, which on the Christian side is the basis for the conciliatory attempt towards Judaism is the same as the love of a child for a cake. That means that it contains the hope that the object of the love will be eaten up... "
-- Albert Einstein in a letter to Rabbi Solomon Goldman of Chicago's Anshe Emet Congregation

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 1:13:11 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 29, 2012 1:14:10 PM PST
Obelix says:
FH,

So you admit content takes a back seat to spin.

Posted on Jan 29, 2012 1:15:28 PM PST
R. Hanley says:
[Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Show post anyway. Show all unhelpful posts.]

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 1:16:16 PM PST
Mr. Krinkle says:
F. Hincholson says:
In or out of context the said what he said.

K: True, but what he meant by what he said is an entirely different story. Einstein called himself an agnostic, an atheist in comparison to strong believers in traditional religion, and when he referred to "God", he did not mean anything approaching a commonly understood definition of God. To Einstein, "God" was the totality of nature, all that exists, and nothing more.

Einstein declares his belief that strongly held religious convictions are detrimental, even dangerous. What Einstein meant by religion was something very different than what most people think of when they think about "religion."

What Einstein espouses as "religion" is simply a "cosmic religious feeling" which embodies respect and admiration for truth, the universe, and moral behavior, and, according Einstein, in the past those who have had it are often regarded as atheists.
[Add comment]
Add your own message to the discussion
To insert a product link use the format: [[ASIN:ASIN product-title]] (What's this?)
Prompts for sign-in
 


 

This discussion

Discussion in:  Religion forum
Participants:  107
Total posts:  1211
Initial post:  Jan 29, 2012
Latest post:  Nov 16, 2012

New! Receive e-mail when new posts are made.
Tracked by 10 customers

Search Customer Discussions