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Atheists are Searching for Self Definition. Even if it is More About Who They Are Against. That's why the Religion Forum attracts them. Also, they have more mixed feelings about religion and Christianity than they admit to. Hello Conflicted Atheists.


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In reply to an earlier post on Dec 30, 2012 9:47:55 AM PST
[Deleted by the author on Dec 30, 2012 9:49:35 AM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 30, 2012 9:56:07 AM PST
Nona Nonyme says:
I say Atheists and Agnostics do NOT exist !!!
Who do you say I am ?

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 30, 2012 10:00:48 AM PST
AxeGrrl says:
Truthseeker wrote: "For example, most people would say with a probability of 99.999% that Zeus is not true. So does this make them an agnostic or an atheist."
~~~~

Once again, the terms aren't _mutally exclusive_. It's not 'either/or' when it comes to atheism/agnosticism.

Anyone who lacks belief in god(s) but doesn't dismiss the _possibility_ could be accurately described as an agnostic atheist.

If, as you said, _everyone_ is agnostic (which I agree with), and as such, you can leave the term out, then why bring it back again with the "atheist OR agnostic?" at the end?

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 30, 2012 10:04:23 AM PST
Ariex says:
E. Boyd says: "If this were a thread about Krishna...and I (a believer in the Lord Jesus son of God) stuck my fat bottom in the middle of the thread and spouted off about the evils of Krishna belief....then you could rightly claim that I had a serious problem with Krishna..."

Ariex: Sorry, but that doesn't fly. It is a transparent attempt to "move the goalposts". A problem with the behavior, the results of Krishna belief is not the same as having a problem with Krishna.

One could use the example of Volcano god belief, and complain about the shortage of virgins on the island as a problem of volcano god belief, but clearly, it is not a problem with the volcano god itself.

The above analogy is just as applicable to the Christian defenses, trying to transfer focus from the problems Christianity has caused in societies, both past and present, to the alleged personal difficulties the complainant has with God as a personage.

But in one way, the accusations of great numbers of dead caused by religion may more properly be laid at the feet of power struggles. The part played by religion is usually as a tool for motivating people to do the killing. Religion doesn't kill people........people being used by others who use religion as a motivator kill people.

Ultimately, though, the fact that people can be used, manipulated by religion, has in fact been an ongoing problem for humankind. But many different ideologies have caused similar problems, so religion is a member of the "ideology" family.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 30, 2012 10:09:06 AM PST
Ariex says:
E. Boyd says: "But seriously...If you go to the Christianity forum here on Amazon...you will quickly find it overrun with athiest and agnostics that have a serious problem with their own lives."

Ariex: But even more seriously, Christians seem to filter the words of nonbelievers in order to make them "safer", less threatening, which is why they seem to be coming from people who have problems with their lives instead of the flaws they see in religious claims and the behavior of those who allow themselves to be influenced by superstitious beliefs.

You see, I've been in Christian threads as well and find the atheists and agnostics there to be pretty much the same as those here, voicing reasonable objections, not "serious problems with their own lives". There are occasional exceptions, but you seem to be stereotyping in order to move those goalposts away from the examination of religion to examination of flawed objectors.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 30, 2012 10:13:52 AM PST
Ariex says:
Truthseeker ( **Not** TeaPartyWoman) says: "For example, most people would say with a probability of 99.999% that Zeus is not true. So does this make them an agnostic or an atheist."
Ariex: Seems to me that "a high degree of confidence" works pretty well for such judgments. I have a high degree of confidence that leprechauns, fairies, Santa Claus, and gods of all kinds are products of human imagination. I can't discern any difference in the level of confidence re any of the named beings, or perhaps a thousand or more other things I could have named, (dragons, elves, flying pigs, etc.)

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 30, 2012 10:15:55 AM PST
Ariex says:
ErikR says: "I see that you're trying to cover your hatred of Lord Krishna through deflection. Forget about atheists and agnostics, let's talk about you."

Ariex: Yes, it is obvious that Lord Krishna has not been kind to E. Boyd in the past and he is trying to cope with his anger by claiming disbelief.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 30, 2012 10:20:16 AM PST
Ariex says:
E. Boyd says: "I don't search out Goblin blogs and rant against the non-existence of Goblins. That would be kinda "sick"."

Ariex: But ranting about the personal problems of atheists who are "rejecting" God because they "need to rail against God and their being called back", is perfectly all right, eh?

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 30, 2012 11:02:07 AM PST
"But in one way, the accusations of great numbers of dead caused by religion may more properly be laid at the feet of power struggles. The part played by religion is usually as a tool for motivating people to do the killing. Religion doesn't kill people........people being used by others who use religion as a motivator kill people. "

Yes, religious leaders have sometimes scapegoated a group of people, and placed the blame for the world's troubles, on that group of people. Hitler and Stalin and Pol Pot did the same thing.

Whether it is secular or religious scapegoating, makes no difference at all. And along comes a certain type of atheist, the type who is intolerant of beliefs that don't square with their own, blaming religion for the world's woes, and they think that they aren't more of the same-- a mass blame cult. It's the same mentality, regardless of whether it is dressed up in secular or religious trappings.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 30, 2012 11:03:27 AM PST
mark says:
Alan,

You apparently think the BB theory to be insufficient because it is self generated and requiring no further explanation.

However, (a god) must necessarily be self generating and require no further explanation.

Aren't you proclaiming something to be insufficient, then using that same insufficiency to justify the proclamation?

Peace.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 30, 2012 11:19:15 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 30, 2012 11:22:03 AM PST
Alan says:
mark

Quite possibly. As I said this view of God may eventually be shown by scientific discovery to be nothing other than one of the physical laws that govern the universe. Until such time I am content to accept the paradox that you so clearly describe and live with the consequent doubt and uncertainty. I certainly would not wish to argue the point to persuade anyone that I am correct in my conclusions. It is enough for me that it is my own belief.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 30, 2012 11:23:17 AM PST
ErikR says:
Yes, he would be so much happier if he would only admit to his anger and hatred towards Lord Krishna. We're only trying to help.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 30, 2012 11:30:00 AM PST
[Deleted by Amazon on Sep 25, 2014 12:37:23 PM PDT]

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 30, 2012 11:31:23 AM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Dec 30, 2012 11:33:05 AM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Dec 30, 2012 11:33:44 AM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Dec 30, 2012 11:35:17 AM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Dec 30, 2012 11:38:48 AM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Dec 30, 2012 11:41:16 AM PST
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Posted on Dec 30, 2012 11:50:12 AM PST
I used Zeus because it was at the end of the alphabet. My point was that it includes all gods from A to Z for the past 5,000 years. There have 3,000 + of them. Any little nitpicking in order to preserve the belief in Jesus and the Christian god I guess. Dig in one's heels to maintain the fantasy.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 30, 2012 11:51:43 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 30, 2012 11:51:55 AM PST
'probabilist says:
SM wrote:

> I used Zeus because it was at the end of the alphabet.

Not because the words 'Zeus' and 'Deus' are cognates?

,.-)

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 30, 2012 12:39:38 PM PST
mark says:
Understood, and agreed.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 30, 2012 12:54:20 PM PST
ErikR says:
Exodus 33:18-23

18 Then Moses said, "Now show me your glory."

19 And the Lord said, "I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the Lord, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 20 But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."

21 Then the Lord said, "There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. 22 When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23 Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen."

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 30, 2012 1:26:49 PM PST
Sir Pugsly says:
Kenyon...."Whether it is secular or religious scapegoating, makes no difference at all. And along comes a certain type of atheist, the type who is intolerant of beliefs that don't square with their own, blaming religion for the world's woes, and they think that they aren't more of the same-- a mass blame cult. It's the same mentality, regardless of whether it is dressed up in secular or religious trappings"

Boyd says....Spot on.....Spot on!

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 30, 2012 1:33:06 PM PST
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Discussion in:  Religion forum
Participants:  60
Total posts:  760
Initial post:  Dec 29, 2012
Latest post:  Jun 2, 2013

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