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Why do I need to pray in order for God to help me? : Questions to God: Part 2


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Showing 126-150 of 371 posts in this discussion
In reply to an earlier post on Sep 26, 2012 1:47:36 PM PDT
I. L. Walker says:
S - I follow a God of love and I measure the distance I am from that God by the amount of fear I have. The closer to God the lesser the fear.

Posted on Sep 26, 2012 1:48:27 PM PDT
I. L. Walker says:
My Apologies, Family Time rolls in this time everyday. Good Evening to all.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 26, 2012 2:58:36 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 26, 2012 2:59:45 PM PDT
But, are you sure you aren't taking a circuitous route to Jesus and God? In my experience many Christians truly believe they are praying to Jesus & God when they are, in fact connected to a kind of covenent that provides the answers to their prayers. I have run into those covenents among LDS church members and certain Evangelical church members.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 26, 2012 4:01:15 PM PDT
I. L. Walker says:
KMP - I am sure that my prayers are heard by those to whom I direct them.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 26, 2012 4:32:19 PM PDT
How do you know? Most people have no way of knowing until they know God.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 27, 2012 4:40:45 AM PDT
Vicki says:
Dear Aardwizz,

You said :"People have discovered that, when you really love someone, you don't give them everything they ask for, or even give them what they need. Doing so simply makes them dependent on you and your generousity. You do them a favor by denying them."

Jesus mentioned this subject, but he had a different take on it.
He said that regular people, like us sinners, are quite capable of giving good things to those they love. A father would naturally give his son the item he asked for or needed, and that God is also generous in that way. In fact, Jesus assured his followers that God would provide for their needs, and I believe that this holds true to this day.

I think that where you and Jesus part company, is at this point- where you mention "simply makes them dependent". Jesus wants us to "remain" in him like a branch on a grape vine, and even goes so far as to say that his followers can do nothing apart from him.

You said :"This makes for an interesting conclusion, however. The result of an infinitely loving God and an uncaring (or non-existent) God are identical."

I don't agree with your conclusion. Your idea of perfect love seems to involve man being independent of God. That is what our culture values, isn't it? We pull ourselves up by our own 'bootstraps', we overcome our bad backgrounds and prove ourselves to others that
we are independent and strong. And then when we get to where we want to be, we can say, "I did it my way". And if we are religious, we imagine God standing up and applauding us.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 27, 2012 5:07:16 AM PDT
Vicki says:
Dear Dak,

You said :"The prayer of the hypocrite, meaning praying in public and in churches.
Babbling as pagans do.
Those two alone pretty much nail every church-going Christian today."

You actually think that Jesus is saying that anyone praying in public and in a congregation is a hypocrite? I thought that he made the point in the Matthew and Luke passages that the hypocrites were those who were trying to impress men with their long, elaborate, and public prayers.

After all, Jesus prayed in public at times and even went so far as to say, where "2 or 3 are gathered together in my name..."

You said :"The prayer itself is about telling God to do his will. Does that prayer actually need to be said being that God is going to do his will regardless?"

I disagree. We don't tell God to do His will. The prayer is a model which starts out with praise for God, then the follower commits themself to His Kingdom and will.

You said :"Where is the listening and "coming into tune" part?"

Jesus also led his followers by example. Do you recall his prayers in Gethsemane? He was petitioning God and listening for the answer while the disciples were supposed to be keeping watch, but they kept falling asleep? Jesus didn't get his petition, but he did align his will with God's will, as indicated by his words- "Yet, not as I will, but as You will".

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 27, 2012 5:10:02 AM PDT
Vicki says:
Dear Shiv,

You said :"BTW, God does exist. It is just that God has nothing to do with ignorance of religions or their prayers."

How do you know that God has nothing to do with anyone's prayers?

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 27, 2012 7:42:46 AM PDT
I. L. Walker says:
KMP - Because I do not judge as an extension of my ego.

Posted on Sep 27, 2012 12:27:53 PM PDT
Vicki,
I know God has nothing to do with religions and prayers, because that is what He exactly said!!

You can divide people on this planet in 3 categories. The mere mortals, you and me, who are normal average people with no super natural abilities. We live for our happiness and the happiness of our loved ones and experience joy and sorrow in our day to day lives. 99.99% people fall in this category.

There is a second category of people, masters, who form the remaining .01% people, who have some super natural capabilities. Jesus was one of them. It is possible, to cure other people and do some that non-natural stuff by virtue of powers attained thru Tantrik meditation in this birth or previous births. I met a meditation monk, who had double kidney failure, and was cured by Him in 1960's. This monk is still alive. In the book, Autobiography of a Yogi, you see a list of such masters. Many Christian saints, sufis and others are well known to have such powers.

The above two are called Koala. The ones who cannot raise the kundalini's of others, but can raise their own.

Then there is the third category, where there is just One.
He has super natural abilities, that no one else has. He is the only one who can raise kundalini's of others, without touching them, and do simultaneously on many individuals.
First took a human body 7000 years ago, when humans were mostly savages. He is Father of Human Civilization - who created the process of marriage, who created the science of medicine, father of music, who invented the seven notes from sound of seven animals. He is also called the Lord of Ghosts.
The same entity visited again 3500 years ago, and for the first time in recorded history, some one could walk his talk and still say, I have created myself from my fundamental factors. You all exist in me. You will directly reap the consequences of your actions.
He came again in last century. He came quietly but His powers are easy to see. This time He gave an Ideology for developed human mind. The vast body of knowledge He has left behind is astounding. Then He says, this Universe is His nature. Asking or praying for it to change, is fundamental ignorance unbecoming of humans. Every object, atom and wave of this Universe is part and parcel of Him. To know Him, one simply has to know onself by meditation.
Prayers are actually harmful to the human mind. It creates as form of slavery to a fictional entity, and situation of constant acceptance of inferiority, which is very bad for humans. Such a human can be easily manipulated in the name of God.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 27, 2012 10:55:24 PM PDT
DKK -- I saw my need for God for decades...

What, exactly, do you mean by that?

DKK -- never did I "hear" anything from this supposed creator of the universe.

What, specifically, were you expecting to hear?

DKK -- I found myself sitting next to hundreds of people over the years claiming that God was doing everything good in their lives because of constant prayer.

Really hundreds? I've read stuff about people suffering incredible setbacks and tragedy unrelated to the quantity of prayer. I suspect that what God does or does not allow is not OF NECESSITY related to quantity of prayer.

I've further read (and heard) that the purpose of prayer is NOT to treat God as some kind of cosmic bellhop, but as a way of drawing near Him because the person praying
1) WANTS to know Him
2) WANTS to BE IN HIS will, rather than USING prayer as a MEANS to an END.

The Lord's Prayer (as it's referred to) SPECIFICALLY states "THY will be done". God's will, NOT ours should be the MAIN focus of our prayer life.

DKK -- people that think that by simply speaking your needs ...that your wishes will be answered.

There are thousands of people who believe this. I am not one of them. As I said above, God is not a cosmic bellhop who is there to cater to our whims and desires. Such an attitude is a gross misunderstanding of God... and ourselves.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 28, 2012 6:21:31 AM PDT
quert says:
Vicki, you said, "Jesus didn't get his petition, but he did align his will with God's will"

This is ably reiterated in the popular Serenity prayer,

" God grant me the serenity 
to accept the things I cannot change; 
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference."

I consider this to be good advise, whether a God is invoked or not.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 28, 2012 6:24:23 AM PDT
Vicki says:
Dear Shiv,

Thank-you for the run down of your spiritual path. I can't say that I agree, but now I know why you wrote that God has nothing to do with religion and prayers.

You said :"Prayers are actually harmful to the human mind. It creates as form of slavery to a fictional entity, and situation of constant acceptance of inferiority, which is very bad for humans. Such a human can be easily manipulated in the name of God."

That is an interesting statement- "situation of constant acceptance of inferiority". I have to admit that when I pray, it is with the idea in my mind that God is great and I am conscious of the fact that He is far greater than me. I don't exactly say to myself that I'm inferior, but I do acknowledge and praise Him for being who He is, and for being someone I can imitate, but not be Him.

Your last statement- "Such a human can be easily manipulated in the name of God."

I bet we can both come up with examples of people who claimed to be speaking for God or Jesus, and then manipulated them.

Yet, even some gurus in similar spiritual paths as yours have been known to manipulate people, as well. How do you tell the good gurus from the bad?

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 28, 2012 6:26:45 AM PDT
Vicki says:
Dear quert,

I agree. :)

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 28, 2012 7:29:36 AM PDT
Jeremy, have you ever been involved in a prayer chain? Or been to a prayer group meeting?

Prayer chains are usually done through email nowadays, but were done through a paper bulletin in the days that I attended church. This list never mentions anything about wanting to know God more or wanting to be in his will.

These chains are usually a to-do list of requests to ask God for help on very specific issues. I have never seen these lists differ from that model.

Prayer groups are usually an extension of that, but people pray together in-person. People may make comments during prayer about wanting to know God, or love God, or doing God's will, but ultimately the prayers always come down to asking for stuff from God.

The real question here is, why would I ever ask to be a part of God's will through prayer, if God's will is unchanging?

Posted on Sep 28, 2012 8:53:15 AM PDT
Vicki,
Yes, for every 1 good Master one can find, there are 10 more who are crooks. Problematically, the crooks are also very good at deceiving people.

One way to avoid the crooks, is to see if they charge money, ask for donations etc.

True spirituality is not a financial enterprise.
Secondly, a person should experience something internally, real and credible in this life, instead of just fake promises after death.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 28, 2012 8:57:46 AM PDT
I. L. Walker says:
S - Can a Master possess Truth which conflicts with a different Master?

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 28, 2012 10:49:50 AM PDT
Shiv K. Singh says:
"True spirituality is not a financial enterprise."

I love that statement!

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 28, 2012 11:27:38 AM PDT
I. L. Walker says:
DKK - Feed the poor. How does that one grab you?

Posted on Sep 28, 2012 1:42:27 PM PDT
Hello ILW,
Let me tell you a story, a real one. This is regarding if different masters can conflict in statements.
In the 1600's, there was a saint born in India, in the state of West Bengal. His name was Chaitanya Mahaprabu. After 6 years of intense meditation, he got enlightenment. He used his inspiration to create a special song(kirtana), which you may have heard from the ISKON guys "Hare Krishna Hare Krishna ..". The main thing is he infused cosmic energy in it, so anyone who sings it, experiences bliss.
People of his time used to go into a state of trance by singing it ( even today, people loose themselves while singing it). The upper caste Brahmins got scared and angry at this. They started to loose control over the masses who started to follow Chaitanya in hordes.

These upper caste Brahmins in Puri, Orissa ( another adjacent state of India), conspired with the king, saying he was a demon who was making people go mad.

They invited Chaitanya to a temple in Puri, and killed him, and threw his body pieces into the ocean. To add salt to injury, they told his followers, that Chaitanya had merged into the wooden symbol in the temple, thereby making them pray to the wooden idol in Puri ( a practice followed till today). Talk about killing two birds with one stone.

In the end, one should be the master of his own destiny. Others are like lampposts, showing you the way, but the choice and journey is only yours.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 28, 2012 2:03:27 PM PDT
I. L. Walker says:
S - Man is truely the master of his own destiny. That is the value of following the Master who can establish One Truth. And the cost associated with following the master who can establish only one shade of the many lies. Truth establishes the meaningful life, lies establish the meaningless life. Choose.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 28, 2012 3:01:44 PM PDT
ILW: "Because I do not judge as an extension of my ego."

You don't? How do you know that?

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 28, 2012 7:15:59 PM PDT
soct the gat says:
I don't think that it is necessary to pray to God to receive God's help. God gives you what you need. It is your responsibility to understand why you need what you are given and use it appropriately.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 28, 2012 9:17:59 PM PDT
quert says:
Walker, I agree...food stamps all around!

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 29, 2012 3:36:32 PM PDT
I. L. Walker says:
KMP - I don't. I know because the Being that establishes the extent of prayer and to whom prayer has recourse has established the efffectiveness of prayer. To resort to ego is to alienate ones self from the humility required to conform ones will to the Being who responds to prayer. Prayers made from the ego are destined to be answered with the power the ego posesses. Good luck with that
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Discussion in:  Religion forum
Participants:  24
Total posts:  371
Initial post:  Sep 13, 2012
Latest post:  Nov 14, 2012

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