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Why Are Atheists So Obsessed With Religion?


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In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 2:31:15 PM PST
You were partially correct. He did coin the phrase "a wall of separation between church and state" in his letter to the Danbury Baptists.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 2:31:26 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 29, 2012 2:42:02 PM PST
not4n - "So why do atheists spend so much effort trying prove with science that God does not exist. "

Most of us don't. We address arguments given to us by believers. That those arguments are lacking doesn't prove there is no God. However, it does mean there is precious little reason *to* believe in God. And that's what we spend so much time talking about. There are other subjects too, such as the logical problems with omnipotence and omniscience, or the problems calling any entity a "supreme being." Logical issues abound, so much so that one could spend years never actually arguing "God does not exist." I know, because I've never actually argued that God does not exist. I've encountered fewer than a handful of atheists who tried to prove God's non-existence. The vast majority of atheists are agnostic atheists.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 2:32:06 PM PST
Lj3d says:
not4n: Science cannot prove that God does or does not exist. So why do atheists spend so much effort trying prove with science that God does not exist.

Lj3d: I've not really ever seen any scientist worthy of that title out to prove or disprove God. Maybe atheists who are non scientists do this using scientific reasoning but failing to follow it through. An example being the big bang. I know of no credible scientist who would even dare venture to speculate on what came before the BB without at least a disclaimer. My understanding as a non scientists who is interested in astronomy is that science cannot address what came before the BB or how it began. Fringe cosmology will sometimes speculate, but they tell you they are speculating and non that I have ever seen say there is or is no God.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 2:32:56 PM PST
not4n - "But the universe is a closed system as far as anyone can tell. "

And entropy is increasing elsewhere to more than offset the temporary increased order on earth. The 2nd law is statistical, and allows for temporary, local increases in order, offset by increases in entropy elsewhere. Your argument is flawed.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 2:33:07 PM PST
here is one thread on Amazon in the Christianity forum.
Why Do Christians Bring up The Same Tired Arguments Refuted Long Ago?

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 2:33:59 PM PST
Asking "why" the universe exists presupposes a purpose and therefore some kind of intelligence. So I think your question presumes a creator and is begging the question.

Atheists are not interested in proving the nonexistence of God with science. You are making that up.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 2:34:17 PM PST
Ku - "I don't think I've ever seen an atheist fielding a scientific argument disproving the existence of God in all the years I've been here."

Nor I. All the attempts I've seen have been logical, not scientific.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 2:37:05 PM PST
Ku says:
That thread has 5600 or so posts.

I'm not going to read them all to check up on your claim.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 2:37:07 PM PST
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Posted on Jan 29, 2012 2:40:03 PM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 2:40:06 PM PST
Ku says:
Yeah, the arguments I've seen have mostly been to defend the position of atheists in the absence of complete knowledge or even proof on the matter.

If I felt that it was proven, I'd have to regard believers as unbelievably obtuse. But I don't because there cannot be such proof, in all likelihood. Given the nature of the question.

As it happens, I just stand up for my niche to say 'I don't believe in God' without having to fear more than some murmuring from the majority.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 2:40:57 PM PST
not4n - "Why Do Christians Bring up The Same Tired Arguments Refuted Long Ago? "

You may be confusing the use of science to disprove specific Christian arguments with using science to disprove God. Disproving one Christian argument, or 50, does not disprove God. Showing the premises of an argument wrong does not mean the conclusion is wrong, only that the premises do not lead to the conclusion.

"If Chicago is made of licorice, Newt Gingrich is a biped." Chicago is not made of licorice, but that does not give Newt 4 legs. All we've shown is that the premises do not lead to the conclusion. Meaning, atheists can attack the premises without claiming the conclusion is false. And that's generally what we do.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 2:41:19 PM PST
Ku says:
Have you looked at the wiki entry?

It's become the U.S. motto since 1956 because of the fight against the 'godless commies'.

And it's been on U.S. money since 1864 or so.

Not from the start.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 2:41:33 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 29, 2012 2:49:17 PM PST
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Posted on Jan 29, 2012 2:43:00 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 29, 2012 2:43:54 PM PST
Superman,

You don't seem to need a dictionary either...

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 2:43:41 PM PST
Ku says:
The ToE isn't concerned with amino acids.

It's concerned with species.

It makes no pronouncement on the origins of life.

Posted on Jan 29, 2012 2:44:17 PM PST
In God We Trust was put on paper money in 1957. Coins since 1864.

It has not been on our money from the start unless one wants to revise history and thinks our country began in 1864.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 2:44:50 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 29, 2012 2:46:04 PM PST
Superman: Why does our money say ' In God We Trust'? All city, county and federal courthouses do also.

That has only been the motto since 1956. It was put there by some fervent believers who wanted to change the US Constitution to say that this country is a Christian nation. That effort failed, so they made do with the "In God We Trust" which originally appeared on the 2 cent coin during the Civil War, where there was a similar effort to rewrite the Constitution and history.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 2:45:21 PM PST
not4n - "Any time someone posts a response in support of creation, an atheist posts a response using the flawed "Theory of Evolution""

Evolution doesn't disprove God, nor God evolution. Arguing evolution is NOT an attempt to disprove God.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 2:52:48 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 29, 2012 2:54:04 PM PST
Evolution doesn't disprove God, nor God evolution. Arguing evolution is NOT an attempt to disprove God.

I agree. I am saying that I have encountered atheists trying to use evolution to prove their belief.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 2:53:46 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 29, 2012 2:54:39 PM PST
not4n,

The theory of biological evolution has never tried to account for the existence of everything. It simply explains the diversity of life we see on earth today.

not4n writes "Any time someone posts a response in support of creation, an atheist posts a response using the flawed "Theory of Evolution". Yes it is flawed because they can not explain how amino acids came alive."

So what is your explanation for the origin of life? An intellectually honest answer would be "I really don't know."

However, quite a lot of Christians use the God of the gaps approach. "Ah ha, science can't explain everything." Which then leads to the unsubstantiated and unsupported assumption that the Christian God (Not any sort of god mind you, but Christian God) started everything rolling.

No. I don't think so. That way of thinking is fraught with fallacies.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 2:54:29 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 29, 2012 2:56:05 PM PST
Ku says:
You can use ToE to say that Genesis can't be right on the point of all the animals and plants being created at once.

And once you've established that, you have to ask yourself 'what else in this book that is allegedly the Word of God is dubious?'.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 2:58:38 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 29, 2012 2:58:58 PM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 3:02:29 PM PST
not4n - "I agree. I am saying that I have encountered atheists trying to use evolution to prove their belief. "

Belief that God is not necessary to explain biodiversity is not the same thing as a claim that God does not exist. They are two separate arguments.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2012 3:02:29 PM PST
not4n,

not4n writes "I am saying that I have encountered atheists trying to use evolution to prove their belief."

It is non-belief. According to your logic that atheism is a belief. Not golfing must be a sport or not collecting stamps is a hobby.

You have your thinking all twisted around. Non-belief can not be a belief. Just like non-belief in the tooth fairy is not a belief. It is strictly the non-belief in the tooth fairy. The same applies to the imaginary Christian god. Atheists have a non-belief for this imaginary man in the sky known as Christian God.
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Discussion in:  Religion forum
Participants:  107
Total posts:  1211
Initial post:  Jan 29, 2012
Latest post:  Nov 16, 2012

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