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Atheists are the truest Christians on the planet


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Showing 1-25 of 248 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Nov 8, 2012 8:29:39 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 8, 2012 8:33:22 AM PST
austin_Larry says:
There was a thread in the politics forum saying 'certaintly' athesists have nothing in common with true Christians. My response is below. I would ask that people responding do so as those of as that are athesists when we think of your good qualities of being 'Christian'. Please understand that the concept of being Christian is a good one to us. But I will tell you truely and honestly. Why do you have a bad taste and reputation for many of us? It is because of many people who call themselves 'Christian' their actions and who they have become are filled with hate. I don't mean that to be hurtful, I mean to to be helpful.

My original post below.

Let me tell everyone why athesists are actually the Truest Christians on the planet.

Morality does not and never has come from religions. All the best religions in the world have the 'golden rule'. But guess what? They never EVER, none of them created the golden rule. You know who created the golden rule? We did, our humanity did, ourselves did, our biology did. It is universal.

Most every human being is born with empathy and caring. Why? We are social animals. That is how we survived. We survived by caring. We are not the fastest, strongest, heartiest is or anything else physically. We are actually wimps. I know for a fact my cats can kick my behind anytime they wanted. Get us out on the savanah without coperation? See you later. Have a nice time being a lion steak.

Atheists are some of the kindest, gentlest, most wonderful human beings on the planet. We are nice and giving because it makes us happy. I was never a 'mean' kid. In fact quite the opposite. I was super sensitive and always stood up to bullies. I could never take anyone crying and alway loved to make people happy and laugh. Always. To this day the great inanate joy of helping others has never left me.

And I act what I feel are the actions of a wonderful human being, any everyone who knows me would agree with no expectations of rewards or that I get a 'ticket' to ever lasting life. But because it is WHO I AM. And I have zero of the baggae of not liking other religions, of this is the true religion, of hell, of gays are bad, or any of the other amazingly bad and immoral things that organized religions have brought into the world.

Atheists are acutally the truest and purest 'Christians' around. We in our hearts and mind are the ones carrying out the teachings of Jesus, a great man and humanitarian, into the world.

Posted on Nov 8, 2012 9:04:25 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 8, 2012 9:04:50 AM PST
Alan says:
It is only necessary to read comments here in the religion forum, and even more so in the Christianity forum, to realise the truth of your observation that far too many Christians are hateful, arrogant and bitter, and give the appearance of lacking any humility, compassion or even common decency. However, to be fair, the same can be said of some atheists.

Posted on Nov 8, 2012 9:12:47 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 8, 2012 10:21:17 AM PST
Joe Anthony says:
@austin_Larry:

I'm sorry, but I'm not buying it that atheists are somehow more moral or ethical than Christians.

I will admit though, even as a Christians, that I've met and known SOME atheists which are better Christians than SOME of the Christians I've known.

The truth is as Paul said to the Romans, that "we all fall short."

Moreover, we've got to look at people not in terms of where they are but, rather, in terms of far they've come.

For some people, just holding down a job and maintaining a few positive relationships is a major accomplishment.

Posted on Nov 8, 2012 9:47:17 AM PST
austin_Larry says:
I appreciate the responses. I do have to disagree though with some points. Most atheists are more moral than most Christians. Of course with individuals this can vary.

Reason for a second. Think about kids. What would be the 'higher' from of morality. A child who does something nice to avoid punishment? Or a child who does something wonderful and nice for the joy of it? I am not saying Christians don't do the later. I am not saying that Christianity or Christians are in any sense amoral.

But I think there is a fundamental lack of insight and lack of reality by many Christians about just how wonderful and 'Christian' in the best sense of that word most atheists are.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 8, 2012 10:26:12 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 8, 2012 10:29:38 AM PST
Joe Anthony - "I'm sorry,. but I'm not buying it that atheists are somehow more moral or ethical than Christians. "

Even if our actions were no more moral, we conduct ourselves without the threat of eternal hell or the promise of eternal reward. If you need the 'performance enhancer' of religious faith to match us, either we're stronger than average or you're weaker. Or, the performance enhancer is a placebo that does nothing for morality, but just makes you feel better about yourself. The choices here are limited, and none are what i would call flattering.

Posted on Nov 8, 2012 12:19:51 PM PST
Brian Curtis says:
Excellent point. Doing good in the hope of a reward, or out of fear of punishment, is nowhere near as virtuous as doing good simply for the good it accomplishes.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 8, 2012 12:39:24 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 8, 2012 12:42:10 PM PST
Joe Anthony says:
Brian Curtis says:

"Doing good in the hope of a reward, or out of fear of punishment, is nowhere near as virtuous as doing good simply for the good it accomplishes."

I say: why?

According to behavioral psychologists, EVERYTHING we do is out of "hope for reward or fear of punishment".

Along this line, the only good deed is a good deed that is done in the dark; because whether a good deed is done for a reward in heaven or a reward on earth; it's still suspect to ulterior motives.

So let's say that your stranded on the high way late at night; way out in the woods where there is no cell phone service and it's so cold that you're going to freeze to death. Let's also say that just then, two big burly guys in a pick-up truck come to your rescue. They get in touch with "Triple A" and they get you some hot coffee and they get your car to a garage and they get you to a nice warm motel. Possibly, they saved you from frost-bite or even hypothermia. As they leave; you thank them; and one of the guys says, "don't thank us; thank the Lord Jesus Christ who delivered us from drinking alcohol and chasing women; and showed us that loving your neighbor is the way to happiness."

So you just found out that they were in it for a "reward"....

...now what makes what they did any less of a good deed?

Posted on Nov 8, 2012 2:01:46 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 8, 2012 2:27:29 PM PST
austin_Larry says:
Here I think is something I hope all people think about especially religious ones. Think about all the pain, needless pain I might add, caused by religion. Especially lets call it moral pain. This really gets to me BTW even though I am not gay.

Think about all the gay people made to feel bad about themselves. All the family anguish, needless anguish caused about being gay. Did someone make you straight? Did you decide? Was it a choice? I can't recall that for me. I just started being attracted to girls. Who gives a freaking flip if someone finds the other sex or the same sex attractive? I mean really who gives a flip?

But no. Religion or at least 'priests' and I am using that in a universal sense as ones supposedly guiding people of different faiths have to step in and say its 'bad'. Why? Why why why? Why bring all that needless pain and suffering into the world? Why make it so people need to feel so bad about themselves sometimes they think of killing themselves and sometimes they do? What possible connection could that have to any 'god' or morality?

But if your moral compass is inside you no priest on earth can tell you hate is 'godly' like they do now.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 8, 2012 11:05:16 PM PST
The greediest, stingiest man I ever met was an atheist. He hated Christianity, and railed against it constantly. He was also a criminal: he manufactured methamphetamine for several years, and went to jail for exposing himself to a group of children. Subsequently, he changed his name.

Most other atheists I have known have been either sci-fi nerds or metalheads, two groups which have something in common: extreme immaturity. And because of their immaturity, they are not good people.

Contrary to what you said, Larry, Catholic nuns are "the kindest, gentlest, most wonderful human beings on the planet". Nuns establish charities, and have done a million times more charitable work than atheists have done.

What do atheists do when they get control of a country? Look at the Soviet Union or the People's Republic of China for the answer. China's leadership is atheist; are they "the kindest, gentlest, most wonderful human beings on the planet"?

You are lying, Larry. You are simply lying.

Posted on Nov 8, 2012 11:25:21 PM PST
By the way, Larry, I want to add that since you are lying, you are definitely not one of "the kindest, gentlest, most wonderful human beings on the planet".

Lying to promote atheism is not a nice thing to do.

By the way, if God exists, then promoting atheism is not a nice thing to do for that reason.

Furthermore, if God punishes atheists, in this life and/or in the next, then promoting atheism is not a nice thing to do for that reason.

By the way, if you do not say that God does not exist, but rather admit that it is possible that He exists, then you must admit the possible consequences of unbelief, and the possible consequences for others of causing them to have unbelief.

Note, too, that since you are lying about the relative moral character of Christians and atheists, if you were to cause Christians to become atheists, then you would be causing them to become less moral.

All of this means that you yourself, Larry, are not one of "the kindest, gentlest, most wonderful human beings on the planet".

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 8, 2012 11:43:31 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 8, 2012 11:48:04 PM PST
As atheists don't follow Christ, the label Christian, with or without quotation marks, can never be applied.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 9, 2012 12:53:02 AM PST
Joe Anthony says:
austin_Larry says:

"Here I think is something I hope all people think about especially religious ones. Think about all the pain, needless pain I might add, caused by religion. Especially lets call it moral pain. This really gets to me BTW even though I am not gay...Think about all the gay people made to feel bad about themselves. All the family anguish, needless anguish caused about being gay. Did someone make you straight? Did you decide? Was it a choice? I can't recall that for me. I just started being attracted to girls. Who gives a freaking flip if someone finds the other sex or the same sex attractive? I mean really who gives a flip?"

I say:

In some ways "gay" is the new "Black" in America; and even as a Christian, I will concede that the church is, sometimes, part of the problem. The church, is, however, changing as many Christians are also changing. Indeed, many of the more liberal Protestant ministers have come out in favor of same-sex marriage, as well as, ordination of gay clergy. Here is Massachusetts, denominations such as the Congregationalists, the United Church of Christ and the Quakers have rainbow flags in front which stand for gays and lesbians being completely welcome.

Along the same line there is much discord among the Episcopalians, Lutherans, Presbyterians and Methodists; who are desperately trying to accommodate political pressure on both sides as many of their ministers are either openly or more secretly in favor of gay rights.

I understand your point and I can't say that I blame you to feel the way that you do; and one of the problems about these forums that causes such cognitive discord is that we're communicating across state lines and a lot of the perception depends upon which part of the United States that your standing in.

I'm sitting here in liberal Massachusetts which, like most other states is about 80% Christians and heavily Catholic; and even so, NOBODY, except for a few cranks here and there is making a big deal over same-sex marriage. Conversely, I see from your profile that you're sitting down there in Texas where being gay or lesbian might not fly as well with the religious crowd; or for that matter the culture at large.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 9, 2012 3:14:56 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 9, 2012 3:16:43 AM PST
Alan says:
Beast,

You say: "Catholic nuns are the kindest, gentlest, most wonderful beings on the planet" This, however is not the whole truth. It cannot perhaps be disputed that many, if not most, Catholic nuns are among the kindest etc.... but not all. I have had professional dealings with nuns who can best be described as having an antisocial personality disorder, one I remember had to leave her convent and go to another because of physical violence. I know many people who went to convent schools who do not describe the nun teachers as anything other than hateful bullies. Nuns like the rest of us are human beings with the usual flaws that go with that condition.

I think you must also recognise that very many good and charitable people do not believe in God.

The truth is that Christians and atheists alike come in all shades of good and bad.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 9, 2012 3:28:13 AM PST
Alan - "The truth is that Christians and atheists alike come in all shades of good and bad."

Yes, it's almost like people are just people, across the board, and one can't infer character or morality from the presence of religion or faith.

Posted on Nov 9, 2012 4:07:46 AM PST
Alan says:
A quick look at the internet reveals the following major donors to charity:

Warren Buffett (atheist) $40.785 billion to health, education and humanitarian causes
Bill and Melinda Gates (atheists) $27.602 billion to global health and development charities
George Soros (atheist) $6.936 billion for open and democratic societies.

I have no doubt at all that atheists are no less likely to donate to charity than Christians. Andrew Carnegie was another charitable atheist of note.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 9, 2012 4:15:11 AM PST
Alan - "I have no doubt at all that atheists are no less likely to donate to charity than Christians"

Don't forget that Christians consider giving to their church to be giving to charity. It doesn't matter how much of that goes to the poor, vs. how much goes to building a new broadcasting studio for the church, or a new van for the Bible camp.

Posted on Nov 9, 2012 4:49:53 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 9, 2012 4:52:08 AM PST
Alan says:
Mark,

When I visit Catholic Churches in Europe I am always impressed by the magnificent wealth on display; all the great art, all the gold, all the other artefacts and treasures. Then there is the Vatican City, perhaps this has more wealth per square foot than any other state on earth, which of course is what makes it so attractive to tourists.

I expect that somebody here will explain that such wealth is actually justified by scripture and is truly acceptable to the Lord.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 9, 2012 7:51:13 AM PST
Terry L says:
The pope needs something pretty to look at whilst sitting on his golden-handled, marble toilet.

That, obviously, isn't in scripture, but Catholics don't put much faith in scripture anyway--which is why they make up their own little books of rules. The pope/toilet/art/wealth issue, I am sure, is justified in one of those books.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 9, 2012 2:56:00 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 9, 2012 2:57:05 PM PST
So, some rich American atheists who live in our Christian society, who were raised as Christians or Jews, therefore have Christian and Jewish values and donate to charity. And in the case of Bill Gates, his wife is a churchgoing Christian, and she has greatly encouraged him to give to charity.

This means that atheists are better people for living in a Christian society, for having Christian values and for being positively influenced by Christians.

The question is, what would atheists be like in an atheist society?

The answer is, they would be like the Chinese. And the Chinese are horrible people. Life in China is tolerable at all because of moral indoctrination by the Marxist state; without that, China would be an intolerably amoral society. It is even now beginning to become that.

America's atheist minority should remember whence their values come, and appreciate the fact that the average American is moral, and be happy that they are not living in a society full of atheists.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 9, 2012 3:05:53 PM PST
Beast: " And the Chinese are horrible people. Life in China is tolerable at all because of moral indoctrination by the Marxist state; "
---------------
So, the Chinese are inherently evil, but Marxism makes life tolerable?

I guess this ties in with your idea of Western atheists being evil, but made tolerable by the moderating Christian influence.

Your brilliant powers of deduction have me in awe ...

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 9, 2012 3:13:12 PM PST
Alan, Catholic nuns have founded orders to help the poor, and a great number of Christian churches operate soup kitchens and homeless shelters. The Salvation Army alone has fed hundreds of millions of poor people, both in your own country and in America.

Atheists have done nothing similar. The evidence is on the side of Christians: the evidence shows that Christians care about and help the poor much more than do atheists.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 9, 2012 3:20:12 PM PST
That's ridiculous, "Happy Skeptic". I clearly said, as you even quoted me saying, that "Life in China is tolerable at all because of moral indoctrination", not because of Marxism. Moral indoctrination can take place under other forms of government.

Your total lack of powers of deduction has me in awe.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 9, 2012 3:28:09 PM PST
Alan says:
Beast,

"And the Chinese are horrible people"

A beastly statement from a self-styled beast lecturing on charity. You seem to be saying that atheists do not contribute to charity apart from some rich atheists who have contributed billions. But this doesn't count because they come from theistic societies with a theistic upbringing, how can it be otherwise when by tradition the societies of Europe, the Americas and much of Asia are theistic in nature.

The moral foundation of America was built to a significant extent on the moral values of Deists, who were not Christian.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 9, 2012 3:36:04 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 9, 2012 3:37:21 PM PST
Actually, many atheists actually know Jesus Christ's writings and teachings. Many of them follow his teachings. I think that is all that is needed. Atheist doubt is actually out front whereas many so-called Christians actually unconscious doubt, but use proselytizing to convince themselves that they are doing their duty to Jesus--it is like those kinds of "Christians" "doth protest too much".

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 9, 2012 3:53:32 PM PST
Alan, the moral foundation of America was definitely NOT built on the moral values of a few Deists in the government, but on the moral values of the people, almost all of whom were Christians and Jews. This is logically indisputable.

But you certainly do lie!
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Initial post:  Nov 8, 2012
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