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David Marshall and Lying for Jesus


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Initial post: Mar 18, 2013 11:01:45 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 13, 2014 3:39:07 PM PDT
seeker says:
It's been almost a full year since anyone commented on the substance of the original OP, so I'm moving it back to its original location in the Reader Discussion threads for Marshall's book about the new atheism.

Feel free to comment there.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 11:20:19 AM PDT
Celsus says:
seeker

>>Such incidents make Marshall look like an unrepentant, serial liar. <<

I suspect this is because Marshall is an unrepentant serial liar.

>>There are many other deceptive arguments in Marshall's book, but I'm out of room.<<

A full list of Marshall's lies would comprise a book, but you have certainly provided sufficient evidence to show he is a prolific liar.

>>I'll conclude by pointing out how interesting it is that so many prominent Christians, like Harvest House Publishers (Marshall's publisher), Ralph Winter, Paul Griffiths, Allan Chapman, Rodney Stark, Guillermo Gonzalez, Miriam Adeney, Randal Rauser, Earl Palmer, and Tom Gilson of the Campus Crusade for Christ, don't seem to mind Marshall's brazen dishonesty. Too many Christians just don't seem to care much about the truth. And that's the saddest part of all.<<

I think too many Christians are ignorant of many of the issues addressed by Marshall, and simply take his word for it, which is a big mistake where Marshall is concerned.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 11:51:25 AM PDT
Iain says:
Dear Celsus,

On page 136 (Paperback) of 'The Truth Behind the New Atheism,' Marshall writes, "Maybe the Gospels are literally "genetic codes." " I have a marginal note that reads, "Never trust a man who doesn't know what "literally" means.

Petty? By page 136 I was getting a tad frustrated.

Iain

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 12:26:23 PM PDT
You made it to page 136 before getting a wee frustrated? You must have the patience of 10 saints. When Marshall posted here, my limit was in the single digits for the number of sentences I'd read before frustration would set in.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 12:32:41 PM PDT
Iain says:
Dear RRR,

I think it was E.M. Forster that bemoaned the fact that a novel has to have a plot. But a plot is often what keeps a reader turning the page, and so it was with me and The TB the NA; I just had to know what was coming next... a bit like reading P.G. Wodehouse.

Iain

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 12:38:14 PM PDT
Point taken. In this country, we might say that it's like watching a car crash: it's horrible, but you just can't look away.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 1:12:20 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 18, 2013 1:12:35 PM PDT
A Customer says:
[Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Show post anyway. Show all unhelpful posts.]

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 3:14:02 PM PDT
No one? That seems unlikely to me. I didn't see the original post, but I find this one very interesting. Maybe the second time's the charm.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 4:07:55 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 18, 2013 4:09:47 PM PDT
tokolosi says:
A bit disingenuous there Mac -- the Thread was posted on a totally obscure forum, where the vast majority of the threads started got responses in the single digits:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Truth-Behind-New-Atheism/forum/Fx61EWY90T921G/-/1/ref=cm_cd_f_h_dp_t?_encoding=UTF8&asin=0736922121

If seeker wants a timely discussion I'd say s/he did the prudent thing bringing it here.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 4:13:10 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 18, 2013 4:29:26 PM PDT
A Customer says:
Btw, speaking of "Lying for Jesus" or "Lying for whatever", I don't know this Marshall guy, he may be a total hack for all I know. But when someone puts this much work into defended Dawkins, methinks we're being hoodwincked with the obligatory "As a Christian myself". It looks like just another Dawkins groupie trying to hide his allegiances so his post has more stature. Like if I started a thread somewhere saying "as an atheist myself, I am appalled by Richard Dawkins latest arguments".

Just saying

Posted on Mar 18, 2013 4:59:34 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 18, 2013 6:01:51 PM PDT
A Customer says:
Yup. I was right, "Lying for Dawkins" is this guy's motto, by actually claiming "As a Christian myself" before he launches into a defense of his hero.

seeker says:
"Bruce, Your continued refusal to examine the evidence that I already provided seems to be a textbook example of how Christians simply refuse to accept reality, and that tends to support the suspicion that all of Christianity may be based on a refusal to acknowledge reality. Thanks for helping me make my case!"

http://www.amazon.com/review/R3PZQYLGQ0WOUF/ref=cm_cr_rev_detmd_pl?ie=UTF8&asin=0736922121&cdForum=FxGYIMHAXMAG6H&cdMsgID=MxQPEJTARHC74S&cdMsgNo=175&cdPage=18&cdSort=oldest&cdThread=TxNWXKSPV9P453&store=books#MxQPEJTARHC74S

seeker says:
"Your repeated failures to provide what would seem to be readily available documentation is enough to make one suspect that in fact there is no actual, credible documentation to be found, and that your arguments, including the arguments for Christianity itself, are just fairy tales based on wishful thinking, not on actual, credible evidence."

http://www.amazon.com/review/R3PZQYLGQ0WOUF/ref=cm_cr_rev_detmd_pl?ie=UTF8&asin=0736922121&cdForum=FxGYIMHAXMAG6H&cdMsgID=Mx2TMSHO453ALCK&cdMsgNo=165&cdPage=17&cdSort=oldest&cdThread=TxNWXKSPV9P453&store=books#Mx2TMSHO453ALCK

Read through the posts in that thread, an atheist and hard core Dawkins groupie now trying to pass himself off "as a Christain myself"

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 6:16:35 PM PDT
Do you have any responses to what was in the post? It doesn't seem as if you do.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 6:25:16 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 18, 2013 6:29:44 PM PDT
A Customer says:
Do you really see nothing pathetic in a man titling a thread "Lying for Jesus" and then, in the very next breath, "Lying for Dawkins"?

Are you that partisan that you can't condemn dishonesty by people on "your side" of the philosophical debate? Does valuing honesty mean nothing to you people here?

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 6:26:49 PM PDT
I haven't seen any recent posts from Marshall, so both this thread and the other one might not be very topical (for the time being, anyway).

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 6:29:05 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 18, 2013 6:31:28 PM PDT
What has this to do with my post?

What is your evidence for the lying for Dawkins part, other than that you think so?

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 6:30:20 PM PDT
It's been known to happen. I know of a forum with a 160,000+ post thread which someone started several years ago and then disappeared. It's become sort of a catchall, including jokes, chess games, stories written one paragraph at a time, and so forth.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 6:36:12 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 18, 2013 6:36:58 PM PDT
A Customer says:
Because I point out that this man lied, and portrayed himself as a "Christian myself" to give his criticisms more stature and weight than they would have otherwise, and your first responses was to give me a snide remark for having pointed that out.

It sounds totally partisan, like you are less concerned with truth and honesty than you are with guys on your side "making points" in the silly war you think is being waged here.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 6:39:28 PM PDT
The silly war? Is that what I think? How remarkable.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 6:44:50 PM PDT
A Customer says:
Nice dodge. Why give me a snide remark instead of agreeing that portraying yourself as "a Christian myself" to give your criticism more stature is both wrong and rather pathetic?

How pathetic would you think it if I pretended to be "an atheist myself" before launching into a rant about how dishonest I find a Richard Dawkins to be? Would you find me to be a scoundrel?

So why did you ignore it in this case?

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 6:47:35 PM PDT
Iain says:
Dear Macheath,

I'm not too concerned about seeker, his/ her motives, sincerity, etc., but I've read Marshall's book, and I can tell you seeker has it all right. Isn't that important?

No, you don't have to take my word for it that seeker has it right, but there are others on the forum who've read it, and they also agree.

Iain

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 6:48:24 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 18, 2013 6:49:15 PM PDT
I must have missed the part about lying for Dawkins. You'll have to point it out to me.

eta: And after I posted I read Iain's post indicating that seeker is correct. What exactly is the issue here?

Posted on Mar 18, 2013 6:50:52 PM PDT
A Customer says:
I give up. You guys don't value honesty

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 6:57:32 PM PDT
Iain says:
Dear LifelongAtheist,

There is no lying for Dawkins part.

Iain

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 7:03:37 PM PDT
That's what I thought, and hence I was puzzled at Macheath's post.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2013 7:12:02 PM PDT
Are you kidding? Since when does claiming to be a Christian give more stature to anyone's opinions or criticisms?
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Discussion in:  Religion forum
Participants:  33
Total posts:  446
Initial post:  Mar 18, 2013
Latest post:  Dec 28, 2013

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