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Christian Right vows to take back America


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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2012 7:34:48 AM PDT
Vicki says:
Dear Bubba,

You said :"The Southern Baptist Convention encourages the subjugation of women and the domination of women by men."

And then you qouted Thomas Aquinas and Ecclesiasticus.
I'm sure that your realize that Thomas Aquinas was not a Southern Baptist and you realize that Ecclesiasticus is not part of the Protestant Bible... :)

Just to let you know what the Southern Baptist Convention does say, I found the "horses' mouth", so to speak-

http://www.sbc.net/aboutus/pswomen.asp

Women in Ministry
Women participate equally with men in the priesthood of all believers. Their role is crucial, their wisdom, grace and commitment exemplary. Women are an integral part of our Southern Baptist boards, faculties, mission teams, writer pools, and professional staffs. We affirm and celebrate their Great Commission impact.
While Scripture teaches that a woman's role is not identical to that of men in every respect, and that pastoral leadership is assigned to men, it also teaches that women are equal in value to men.

http://www.baptist2baptist.net/b2barticle.asp?id=230

The Obligation of Wives to Husbands
The first word is to wives. They are instructed, "Submit yourselves to your own husbands, as to the Lord." The verb "submit" is implicit, brought down from verse 21. All Christians should give humble deference to one another, but specifically, wives are to take the initiative to subject themselves to their husbands. The directive calls for a voluntary yielding in love on the part of the wife. The New Testament never tells husbands to subjugate their wives, rather it instructs the wives to take submission into their own hands. This does not deny the husband and wife's essential equality before God, an idea which Paul affirms in Galatians 3:28, where he declares, "There is neither ... male nor female, for all are one in Christ."

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2012 7:37:00 AM PDT
B. Josephson says:
Well, I am not sure that you are not proving Bubba's point here Vicki, but nice try.

Best Wishes,
Shaamba Kaambwaat

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2012 8:07:10 AM PDT
Bubba says:
"How about it Bubba, do you think the fundies get to declare Christian doctrine,morality and family, or do other Christians have the right to dispute with them."

I very much hope that other Christians DO dispute fundies on these matters. I am VERY much aware of the attitudes of the various major Christian denominations toward women and gays. My mom and dad belonged to to what is now Presbyterian(USA), Congregational, United Methodist, and UCC churches while I was growing up. Even though I was taken to church and Sunday school until I was 14 and I was active in the social activities of those churches, I never developed a belief in God. I saw women ministers in these churches and I see groups from Christian churches marching in Pride Parades.

The problem is that even though I know that there are Christian denominations that are not sexist and are not anti-gay bigots, the only Christians who seem to be outspoken regarding women and gays in the US are fundies, RCC, and Mormons.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2012 8:13:18 AM PDT
Bubba says:
"The directive calls for a voluntary yielding in love on the part of the wife. The New Testament never tells husbands to subjugate their wives, rather it instructs the wives to take submission into their own hands."

I think that this proves my point; the only difference is that instead of directing women to be subservient, it is directing women to volunteer to be subservient.

How many women are in the clergy in Southern Baptist churches? How many women are in actual leadership positions in the SBC?

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2012 8:14:32 AM PDT
B. Josephson says:
Well, some of us do what we can on forums like Amazon.

Best Wishes,
Shaamba Kaambwaat

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2012 8:28:49 AM PDT
Bubba says:
And I do appreciate that, thanks.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2012 8:54:56 AM PDT
B. Josephson says:
You are welcome Bubba.

Best Wishes,
Shaamba Kaambwaat

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2012 10:00:04 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 27, 2012 10:01:26 AM PDT
Amy Hall says:
B, what's your problem, anyway? I mean, you're just aching for a fight. You just go around and around in circles with anybody who responds to you. What's up with that?

You're obviously a bible believer, but you didn't know about wives "submitting" to their husbands? Subjugation.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2012 2:04:35 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 27, 2012 2:23:05 PM PDT
Vicki says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2012 4:06:37 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 27, 2012 4:29:03 PM PDT
B. Josephson says:
Well, so far nobody has answered a simple question Susie, who wrote Ephesians?

You have not either.

My beliefs in the Bible are a bit more complex, and those who have seen me posting over the years, and have paid attention, know what they are.

So pay attention, answer that question and stop assuming things about me that are not true.

Not all believers believe just like you did when you were a Christian.

Some of us think that some of the beliefs that you had were just plain wrong.

Best Wishes,
Shaamb Kaambwaat

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2012 4:19:57 PM PDT
Bubba says:
Women are likely to be on the staff, but not in any leadership positions.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2012 4:21:15 PM PDT
Rev Otter says:
<<Women are likely to be on the staff>>

giggidy

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2012 4:33:22 PM PDT
[Deleted by the author on Aug 27, 2012 4:36:05 PM PDT]

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2012 9:48:15 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 27, 2012 9:58:04 PM PDT
Amy Hall says:
B: Well, so far nobody has answered a simple question Susie, who wrote Ephesians?
Sooz:(I dunno; go find out, if ya wanna know)

You have not either.
(have not either, what? What are you talking about?? lol)

My beliefs in the Bible are a bit more complex, and those who have seen me posting over the years, and have paid attention, know what they are.
(Ok, so you're complex; so what. So others have paid attention; so what?? What's your point?)

So pay attention, answer that question and stop assuming things about me that are not true.
(Answer what question? I can assume anything I want...Mom.)

Not all believers believe just like you did when you were a Christian.
(And so... what's your point?)

Some of us think that some of the beliefs that you had were just plain wrong.
(Okay... so... again, what's your point? I don't care if you think they're wrong.)

edit: I don't have a problem with the way I think, B. But you do. That's *your* problem. Not mine. YOUR problem.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2012 11:20:44 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 27, 2012 11:28:46 PM PDT
B. Josephson says:
Again looks like you are imagining my problems Susie.

I have not said that I have a problem with what you think
'
I object when you say what is Christian doctrine, and what you say does not describe what is Christian doctrine to me.

I don't accept your power to declare what Christian doctrine is. IMO you are not even remotely qualified to do that just because you were once Christian.

Please stop the straw man arguments.

And I already know what scholars say about who wrote Ephesians, so I do not have to research it.

Apparently you quoted Ephesians without knowing what scholars say about it.

Susie, you may no longer be Christian, but you still write like a fundamentalist, in a dogmatic uncritical way.

And I have consistently argued with the fundies.

Best Wishes,
Shaamba Kaambwaat

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2012 11:35:20 PM PDT
Amy Hall says:
BJ: Again looks like you are imagining my problems Susie.
(I have a great imagination, but my presumptions about you are based on your posts.)

I have not said that I have a problem with what you think
(No, you have not said the exact words, but your intention is there, again, in your posts.)
'
I object when you say what is Christian doctrine, and what you say does not describe what is Christian doctrine to me.
(So what? Ya want a medal? Put it down on your calendar, then.)

I don't accept your power to declare what Christian doctrine is. IMO you are not even remotely qualified to do that just because you were once Christian.
(My "power" to declare what? Everyone who reads scripture interprets the way they want. I have. So have you. So our interpretations are different. So what? Ya want another medal?)

Please stop the straw man arguments.
(I don't know what a straw man argument is.)

And I already know what scholars say about who wrote Ephesians, so I do not have to research it.
(So why did you ask me who wrote it?)

Apparently you quoted Ephesians without knowing what scholars say about it.
(I didn't quote anything, it's from my understanding of it. You're an idiot. You need a scholar to interpret scripture? Then you're in real trouble.)

Susie, you may no longer be Christian, but you still write like a fundamentalist, in a dogmatic way.
(Sooooo what?)

You seem think that your opinions about me are important. They're not. Again, B., I don't CARE what your opinion of me is. And whoever is giving you advice on how to respond in your posts? Not working well for you, so you're better off answering on your own, maybe?

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2012 11:36:48 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 28, 2012 4:18:56 AM PDT
B. Josephson says:
BJ: Again looks like you are imagining my problems Susie.
(I have a great imagination, but my presumptions about you are based on your posts.)

I have not said that I have a problem with what you think
(No, you have not said the exact words, but your intention is there, again, in your posts.)

Response: Only in your imagination.

Susie: You seem think that your opinions about me are important. They're not. Again, B., I don't CARE what your opinion of me is. And whoever is giving you advice on how to respond in your posts.

Response: Nobody is Susie. I wonder why you think someone else is giving me advice. I have never had any problems hearing voices.

Best Wishes,
Shaamba Kaambwaat

Posted on Aug 27, 2012 11:44:09 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 27, 2012 11:46:25 PM PDT
Amy Hall says:
Bruce, I don't *care* what you think. You're back on ignore. And knowing you, you'll post something to me. don't bother; I won't see it. LOL You're such an idiot!

edit: No, actually that was uncalled for. You're not an idiot. I apologize. I do think you have social problems, though, that's for sure.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2012 11:45:14 PM PDT
B. Josephson says:
Okay Susie.

Best Wishes,
Shaamba Kaambwaat

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 28, 2012 1:06:28 PM PDT
Actually, we vote "please make all nonsense posts spouting fact free dogma" disappear.

See, your diatribes were a bunch of baseless opinion, whereas Zuckerman backs up his conclusions with hard data. Now, you are free to draw a different conclusion from that data, but you have to give some idea of your methodology and how the data ties into your conclusion.

For others reading the thread, here's another piece by Zuckerman which comes to some very tellin conclusions re atheists vs theists:

http://www.pitzer.edu/academics/faculty/zuckerman/zuckerman_on_atheism.pdf

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 28, 2012 1:12:27 PM PDT
What are you talking about? You want a return to the old west, David? The law of the land being whoever had the most firepower?

I appreciate that my neighbor can't let his dog poop all over my lawn, or the common space in my community without being fined for it. That's impinging on MY personal freedoms.

Your paycheck comment - I'm guessing you would do away with taxes, right? "It's my money, I should keep it" So, what roads will you drive on to get to work? How will your company operate without utilities? What police force will keep you safe in your home? What military will protect your borders?

See, these things are part of the "common good" and so all citizens should share in the cost of supporting them. And before you talk about the poor and middle class that pay no federal income tax, remember that they pay a larger percentage of income in other taxes - sales tax, local and state tax, use tax, etc.

Check this article out: http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

Basically, if you are not the top 1%, you are voting against your own interests by voting Republican.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 28, 2012 1:30:16 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 28, 2012 1:31:10 PM PDT
Spin says:
Bubba: of course not. Women only have three positions, depending on the mood of the man...

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 28, 2012 2:06:00 PM PDT
Bubba says:
Very interesting writeup, thanks.

Posted on Aug 28, 2012 2:07:41 PM PDT
[Deleted by the author on Jul 30, 2013 12:26:23 AM PDT]

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 28, 2012 2:14:39 PM PDT
[Deleted by the author on Jul 30, 2013 12:26:30 AM PDT]
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Discussion in:  Religion forum
Participants:  82
Total posts:  2594
Initial post:  Aug 3, 2012
Latest post:  Oct 27, 2012

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