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Customer Discussions > Religion forum

The Faith of Unbelief and The Problem of Evil


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Showing 1-25 of 561 posts in this discussion
In reply to an earlier post on Jul 1, 2012 9:00:43 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jul 1, 2012 9:02:27 AM PDT
Marcos says:
D. Thomas,

D.S. Clark doesn't get it. Probably has never seen true suffering. I am talking about children starving to death, thousands killed by a rival group, torture, etc. Plus there is plenty of suffering that does not involve humans. Animals die in horrible ways experiencing terrible suffering every day without any single human even being aware of it.

Suffering simply exists because it helped our ancestors to survive. I remember the news report about a child who did not have feeling. The story was that when the child fell asleep one night the family dog ate part of his/her hand. Obviously similar children who have normal feeling and experience pain when their dogs bite them at night simply smack them.

i.e., suffering wakes them to so they don't lose their fingers.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 30, 2012 12:09:00 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 30, 2012 12:11:54 PM PDT
Bubba says:
The Radiators (live) - "Fess' song"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT53H1qj6hQ

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 30, 2012 11:54:27 AM PDT
Hark ye...

I was walking down the street
Just the other day
When a guy walked up and said Hi
Hi
He was asking for donations
For some religous ship
And i turned and asked him why
He said "If you by this book from me,
I'll give you eternal life"
something which you won't forget
I said listen mister
"I've got my overalls,
theres enough life left in me yet"

I take drugs (drugs)
I like sex (sex)
I like looking at dirty pictures
I like lying in bed with fess

He then became persistant
So i turned around
And glared at that man goodbye
Bye bye
You see im not the violent type
But this guy he's just oblivious in my eyes
I then became objective
I said c'mon man dont give that full of ship
Ship
I said listen mister
"I've got my overalls,
theres enough life left in me yet"

I take drugs (drugs)
I like sex (sex)
I like looking at dirty pictures
I like lying in bed with fess

I take drugs (drugs)
I like sex (sex)
I like looking at dirty pictures
I like lying in bed with fess

Drugs (drugs) and sex (sex)
Dirty pictures
and fess

Drugs and sex
Woohooo
Dirty pictures
I like lying in bed with fess
Listen to me
You gotta believe when
I talk about my drugs buddy

The Radiators
Vintage 70s/80s oz rock

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 30, 2012 11:49:52 AM PDT
arpy you fu-unny

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 30, 2012 10:58:29 AM PDT
Astrocat says:
The Buddha clarified the fact that we cause our own suffering through attachment, through emotional desires. Detachment doesn't mean we cut ourselves off from other people, what it means is that we are no longer dependent on the fulfillment of desire for happiness.

So even though one may have pain, may have disease, may live in horrific conditions, suffering - dukkha - can be eliminated through cessation of desire.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 30, 2012 10:38:17 AM PDT
D. Thomas says:
Eh?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 30, 2012 10:37:05 AM PDT
D. Thomas says:
Wake people up to what? Get their attention for what reason?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 30, 2012 10:28:14 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 30, 2012 10:50:31 AM PDT
D. Thomas says:
I'm still waiting for that single example of God turning suffering into good, absent intervention by a human or other earthly being.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 28, 2012 10:48:14 AM PDT
When I figure out a cure, I'll let you know. In the meantime, gotta go, there's 17 new posts I gotta reply to.

Posted on Jun 28, 2012 10:47:09 AM PDT
Art Franklin says:
Here is a description of the status of psychiatry in general: http://www.examiner.com/article/the-barbaric-history-and-present-of-mental-health-care

This article was written by a mental health professional. Curiously, he uses the word "believe" about this field that is more science than religion:

"While many breathe a sigh of relief that the barbaric and antiquated methods of the past are a memory, contemporary thinking and methods have changed very little. Psychiatric medications have become so common that most laypeople, doctors, judges, and patients alike now believe that they are the only appropriate and relevant treatment for mental illness. So strongly believed is this idea that many argue that to not provide those medications is often considered harmful or inhumane to the patient."

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 28, 2012 10:19:49 AM PDT
Art Franklin says:
Michael Altarriba says:
This: "They base their beliefs on general scientific observations and mathematical odds."

would seem to contradict this: "But you cannot argue that they base this belief on proof." if by "proof" you actually mean "evidence."

Art: Unfair! I used the word proof in response to Ashwood's definition of faith:

*faith
1. confidence or trust in a person or thing
2. belief that is not based on proof*

I agree with all the evidence you wrote, but remember I was talking about intelligent star-travelling life that may buzz by, but whatever.

Let's apply this important semantic change from 'proof' to 'evidence' to the frontal lobotomy fad. Egas Moniz was a neurologist and not a psychiatrist. On what evidence did he decide to drill holes in the heads of patients and inject alcohol? He published the findings in 1936 that "Their own assessment was that 35% of the patients improved greatly, 35% improved moderately and that in the remaining 30% there was no change. "

So on what evidence were tens of thousands of humans lobotomized over the next 35 years? Were doctors working off of current scientific knowledge that the procedure of shoving ice picks up noses was an improvement, or were they working off of a belief that these were good and valid procedures?

Did the patients and families that submitted to lobotomies have informed consent or did they have "1. confidence or trust in a person or thing" and "2. belief that is not based on proof"?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 28, 2012 3:09:08 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 28, 2012 3:09:28 AM PDT
So how did knobs wind up as a hot topic on a thread about E-vil?!?

I've got more knob advice if anyone is interested!

071V8

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 28, 2012 3:07:25 AM PDT
I've got to say, Chris, that is a supremely honest and brave reply.

Kudos.

Seems I'd be the greater fan of Onan than thee.

I'll take a bit of time to digest and get back to you.

Appreciations,

jody

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 27, 2012 9:19:06 PM PDT
D. Thomas says:
I got it. Bad. What should I do, Dr. Fazakas?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 27, 2012 8:16:52 PM PDT
A customer says:
Marcos,

Yes. We may become aware of ourselves as our own cause.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 27, 2012 6:37:49 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 27, 2012 9:14:06 PM PDT
D. Thomas says:
I don't understand the question. Newtonian physics continues to underpin the physics of normal scales, temperatures, relative velocities and accelerative forces. Einstein's theories of relativity and quantum mechanics haven't made Newtonian physics obsolete.

The belief that the sun revolved around the earth preceded "science" in the modern sense of the term.

I stand by my statement; do you disagree?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 27, 2012 12:04:40 PM PDT
This: "They base their beliefs on general scientific observations and mathematical odds."

would seem to contradict this: "But you cannot argue that they base this belief on proof." if by "proof" you actually mean "evidence."

Given what we know about chemistry, biology, and physics, there is good reason to believe, based on the evidence we have, that the processes which led to life on this planet could happen elsewhere in our galaxy (or even elsewhere in our solar system).

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 27, 2012 12:00:00 PM PDT
Art Franklin says:
Marcus said "to say "Scientific Belief" is a fallacy."

I don't know that it is a fallacy. It is perhaps an oxymoron like Military Intelligence. But both exist.

Let me put it this way. The Scientific Method is a great thing. Science itself is based upon knowledge. But these are abstracts.

Scientists themselves are not Science in the same way that Priests themselves are not Religion or God. Scientists are humans that harbor biases, just like John Harvey Kellogg the Seventh Day Adventist. (btw, Bubba did a great job of exposing more of his evil but left out that he was a brilliant surgeon that could do intestinal surgery hundreds of times A DAY without killing his patients unlike most doctors of his day. There is a reason so many people bought his B.S.)

Therefore, scientists have beliefs and belief systems. Have you ever heard the statement that "a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing"? We have seen this illustrated over and over in scientific fields like psychiatry (home of the lobotomy) and when physicists make scientific breakthroughs in service of the militaries of their respective countries.

One final example: Many scientists have faith that there is intelligent life on other planets. They base their beliefs on general scientific observations and mathematical odds. But you cannot argue that they base this belief on proof. Some believe that these fellows are traveling. Therefore belief in aliens is a Scientific Belief. (unless you are a Realian or Scientologist)

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 27, 2012 10:25:10 AM PDT
Marcos says:
Karl,

Not quite following your Pinocchio analogy. Do you mean to say that we may become Gods (our creator), in the way that Pinocchio became human (his creator).

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 27, 2012 9:44:27 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 27, 2012 9:47:42 AM PDT
Jody - To tell all the events that happened which lead me to where I am now would take a novel, one that many have encouraged me to write - but here's one that had impact on me.

When I moved back to Los Angeles years ago, I had some very hard questions about God and religion and had been challenging those who considered themselves religious with them, priests, pastors, rabbis, etc. I was finding it hilarious that none of those I talked to could ever answer them even though they were religious leaders. Then one day I met a man who was the associate pastor at a local church and decided I'd hit him up with the questions. He said he was genuinely interested and asked me to come up to his office to talk which I did.

Once there he prayed for me and then told me as far as the answers I was looking for, he did not have them - I should've known it was a scam .... and then he preceded to tell me my problems and correctly identified not only my current situation but described events that had occurred over the last 20 years in my life that there was no way he could have known anything about. He knew not only the things that had happened to me but specific ways I reacted to them - and this was the first time I ever met the guy! I was blown away!

Although this man could not answer my questions - he certainly left me with a whole new set of them.

I had a similar situation another time where I was collecting some money from an old woman for work. When I went to her door she invited me in, offered me some tea and then as she was writing the check proceeded to tell me how I was not treating my wife fairly in our current dispute - again something she could have no knowledge of. Before I left her house she insisted on praying for me. I was just trying to be polite.

The event with the associate pastor was what really made me open up to the re-examining of my beliefs - I decided to be real I can't just ignore these types of events simply because I can't go back and investigate them to figure them out. Since that time I've experienced so many of these types of "supernatural" events that I no longer think them unusual.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 27, 2012 4:11:53 AM PDT
Bubba says:
Jody R. Bailey says: "It's called onanism."

Named after a brand of portable power generators? ;)

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 27, 2012 4:05:44 AM PDT
G'day ChrisKey,
It's called onanism.

We all practice at it, but you've achieved some genuine status.

8.)

071V8

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 27, 2012 4:00:16 AM PDT
Yers don't know nuthin' till yers know it!

You DON'T let your knob rub back and forth across yer undies or otherwise.

You LEARN how to keep it feelin' juuu-uust right!

And youse skin-flutes miss out!

HA!

071V8

p,s, but I didn't have an unnecessary surgical procedure (are there any others you can think of necessary for a for a new-born) performed on my son, of course

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 27, 2012 2:02:36 AM PDT
AxeGrrl says:
Marcos wrote: "I personally cannot imagine how men walk around with their circumcized penises constantly rubbing their sensitive glans against their underwear and inner leg."
~~~~

That's actually been on of the criticisms of circumcision ~ that it leads to some _DE-sensitization_ because the head of the penis is exposed, when it's normally protected (and kept sensitive) by the foreskin.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 26, 2012 10:50:02 PM PDT
G'day ChrisKey,

Genuinely, what was the specific event, series of events, epiphany, epiphanies, realisation(s), observation(s) or interaction(s) that "allowed" you to believe.

And what do you believe?

And why?

You said you didn't mind, so I'm asking.

071V8

This isn't a wind-up or prank.

I'd bloody-well like to know from the lips of a true convert.
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Discussion in:  Religion forum
Participants:  54
Total posts:  561
Initial post:  May 26, 2012
Latest post:  Jul 1, 2012

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