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Prove the Existence of God(s)


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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 13, 2012 11:04:26 AM PDT
I. L. Walker says:
TC - They were pretty cool, until they were covered in blood, that is.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 13, 2012 11:03:10 AM PDT
I have already stated that JDFBNM has shown that over a period of almost 50 million years the fossil record shows a continuous record of gradual change in the various species which make up an ecosystem. This is phenotypic evidence in support of evolutionary theory. The genomic evidence is more recent and is equally convincing.

I have thought a lot about evolution as well as other topics in science, and have done quite a bit of studying of its claims and the evidence behind it. To me it is a very rational and well supported theory. I have satisfied myself that it is true. If you have already made up your mind for religious or other reasons that it is not true, then it's doubtful that you will be persuaded by any other evidence that I can present. However I can assure you that the evidence I've mentioned so far is only the tiniest tip of an enormous iceberg of evidence.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 13, 2012 11:02:53 AM PDT
I. L. Walker says:
C - Truth has the most practical of applications. That is the immense value of each Word spoken by Jesus. How blessed we are to have them.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 13, 2012 11:00:29 AM PDT
ILW

"Watch sports mainly. I love my toenails."

I'm sure you do ILW. Only joking.

TC

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 13, 2012 10:59:13 AM PDT
D. Thomas says:
The usual rubbish.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 13, 2012 10:59:04 AM PDT
Spin

"he ancient Greeks considered homosexuality to be quite normal behaviour. The world was conquered by a homosexual; Alexander the Great (I do not know if the appelation "Great" refers to his achievments or his genitalia) =)"

Te he snigger snigger....

TC

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 13, 2012 10:58:19 AM PDT
D. Thomas says:
Evolution is usually defined as the change in the inherited characteristics of biological populations over successive generations.

Mutation takes place at the genetic level. It's random.

Mutations effect changes - usually inconsequential - in the offspring. Many mutations have no effect on the ability of an organism to survive. But those that do... well, that's where natural selection comes in.

Selection - whether natural or artificial - takes place at the level of the organism. (Dog breeding is an example of artificial selection. The best of the breed are chosen to reproduce.)

Selection is not random. In nature, it almost always takes place in direct response to environmental conditions. Good mutations - those that enhance survival of an individual - tend to be reproduced. Bad mutations - those that result in early death of the organism - are obviously much less likely to be passed along.

Put another way: Nature selects organisms with certain mutations to pass along their genes, mutations and all. Some mutations are neutral. And some mutations produce traits that reduce the chances of the organism's survival and reproduction. Nature "deselects" the last group.

Mutations of the first type may produce organisms that come to dominate a species, even to the extent of replacing it or becoming a separate species that doesn't reproduce with the "old" species. Geographical separation can be a key factor in that process.

"Evolve" does not mean to become "better" in some way. It simply means to change. Hippopotamus-like semi-aquatic creatures evolved into whales. They didn't become "better" as a result. They simply changed gradually in ways that allowed them to thrive in a marine environment.

Darwinian theory doesn't place a value on "evolution" per se. We do talk about "successful species" like ants, bees and humans, but that has to do with their longevity as a species and the extent of their domain and biomass.

I've heard spiritualistic people refer to each other as "highly evolved," but that pop culture phrase has nothing to do with Darwinian evolution.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 13, 2012 10:57:52 AM PDT
Shakepen

"This moral reversal I find quite fascinating since it was promoted and executed by gays themselves."

I agree, it is fascinating and, as I've stated in previous posts, is another illustration of how difficult it is to get a tag on morality. It would seem that there are as many definitions as there are people. Certainly, the moral compass on issues like sex before marriage in the Western world has taken a 180 degree turn.

T Crown

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 13, 2012 10:56:26 AM PDT
I. L. Walker says:
JD - Defense against aggression is justified. Terminal force being required in preemption is a non christian position.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 13, 2012 10:53:52 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 13, 2012 10:54:50 AM PDT
Spin says:
John: I am quite happy to discuss any issue with you. I do not judge you according to your agreement or disagreement with me. But I do object to quotes from "wikipedia" being used and, indeed, considered accurate conclusions based on detailed research. Wiki is not a reliable source of information... Even if you provide quotes from Wiki which support my argument, I will still object to its use as a soure of information and learning..

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 13, 2012 10:53:49 AM PDT
I. L. Walker says:
JD - Why should anyone need to turn one to a link? They should be able to present the information they reference in their own words, thus showing the level of their understanding. I f you can provide me with evidence that God does not exist I will immediatley deny His existence. But don't expect me to take your word for it when it comes to what is valid evidence. The practical applications of Physical Chemistry are based on the establishment of models which are established both by statistical analysis of data and experimentation which generates that data. Unfortunately models of the ecosystems of prehistoric environments are far from statistically established, the fruit of reproducable experimentations, but the fruit yielded by the educated imagination. Interesting but far from practical in the pursuit of useful applications. Thus applied by the biased in pursuit of claims of scientific legitimacy of poorly formed opinions. For example, the origins of the material world is impossible to determine, which it is not.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 13, 2012 10:51:18 AM PDT
John Donohue says:
>>I. L. Walker says:
S - Ancient Greeks? You have a survey concluding such, or do you rely on a more self affirming source?<<

Read Plato's "Symposium" for an example.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 13, 2012 10:50:28 AM PDT
John Donohue says:
Spin >>Surely the fitness of a species is related to its environment, not the human expectations of "fitness" gathered under the label "Evolution"?<<

Yes, "fitness" is just the relative ability to survive and reproduce in a specific environment.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 13, 2012 10:49:07 AM PDT
John Donohue says:
>>Spin says:
John: Aah. Wikipedia...say no more..(Please, say no more) =)<<

I see this reaction all the time when someone does not want to address the issue. I can assure you that these wiki quotations jibe with what biologists like Jerry Coyne and Ernst Mayr have written in their books. Since I cannot link to them, I suppose that you will consider the matter to be unresolved.

But if you can cite ANY reference (wikipedia will do fine) that supports your view of mutation, please enrich me.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 13, 2012 10:45:36 AM PDT
D Thomas

" If you had a photo, you'd add 'bloody good looking' to that!! TC
"Wishful thinking."

How ddddddare you sir!!!

TC

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 13, 2012 10:45:13 AM PDT
John Donohue says:
>>Spin says:
D: Quote; "mutation does not occur by natural selection". Really? Perhaps you would care to enlighten us as to how it does occur?<<

Seriously?

"In molecular biology and genetics, mutations are accidental changes in a genomic sequence of DNA: the DNA sequence of a cell's genome or the DNA or RNA sequence in some viruses. These random sequences can be defined as sudden and spontaneous changes in the cell..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutation

Selection is accomplished either in a controlled manner as when a farmer selects the corn variants that have bigger, more densely kernaled cobs or naturally as when a gazelle with longer legs outruns more cheetahs.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 13, 2012 10:44:56 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 13, 2012 10:46:56 AM PDT
Spin says:
IL; Can you prove Jesus was the man you believe he was? Why question the research of legitamate historians when you do not bother researching your own beliefs? Do you know that Ceasar was epileptic? And christianity considered epileptic attacks to be the work of Satan...Homosexuality was accepted by the greeks who had a love for physical beauty and pleasure... If you are not aware of that, I suggest you read up on history, philosophy and archeology...But then to acknowledge the contribution of people to society without reference to their sexuality, would be impossible for the righteous, would it not?

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 13, 2012 10:42:01 AM PDT
I. L. Walker says:
af - No its not. If so define the source of it normalness in nature. Homosexual acts are clearly sterile correct? Would nature label as normal that which preverts function?

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 13, 2012 10:40:36 AM PDT
ILW

Are you serious? Murderous aggression never yields advances of any kind except the possible formation of an understanding which will forever stifle the growth of such perverse goals by a nation deluded by the ravings of a madman. Any technological advances, from WWII, which have value to mankind arose from the battle against the advancement toward the victory of the Nazis , not for the advancement of their evil goals. Advancements in the weapons of destruction do not serve the purposes of those upon which they are used. They count in the assessment.

What about the uniforms. The Nazis had some great uniforms. Ah cmon now, they were really trendy & cool.

T Crown

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 13, 2012 10:40:05 AM PDT
I. L. Walker says:
S - Ancient Greeks? You have a survey concluding such, or do you rely on a more self affirming source? Can you definitively prove Alexander the Great was a homosexual? You may be right, but can you prove it. The overambitious often feel the need to feed the ravenous emptiness they sense within themselves.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 13, 2012 10:39:04 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 13, 2012 10:41:06 AM PDT
And what a tragic state of affairs would ensue if we didn't know the difference. Possibility, as you say, has no place in the distinctions between these poles-apart conditions.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 13, 2012 10:39:03 AM PDT
Spin says:
Keith: So "Evolution" refers to "fitness"? And by what standard is fitness judged? Surely the fitness of a species is related to its environment, not the human expectations of "fitness" gathered under the label "Evolution"?

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 13, 2012 10:36:22 AM PDT
John Donohue says:
IL >> Murderous aggression never yields advances of any kind except the possible formation of an understanding which will forever stifle the growth of such perverse goals by a nation deluded by the ravings of a madman..<<

Except the murderous aggression of Catholics while defending the faith? [See "Thirty-Years War"]

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 13, 2012 10:36:17 AM PDT
Spin says:
John: Aah. Wikipedia...say no more..(Please, say no more) =)

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 13, 2012 10:35:23 AM PDT
I. L. Walker says:
af - The Truth always seperates evil from good. Possiblity has no influence.
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Discussion in:  Religion forum
Participants:  222
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Initial post:  Dec 28, 2011
Latest post:  Sep 8, 2015

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