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Atheism is absurd


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In reply to an earlier post on Jun 2, 2012 8:20:03 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 2, 2012 8:24:03 PM PDT
D. Thomas says:
There's a fine line between teasing and bullying. Let's not do stuff that encourages it. It's bad for anybody; it's become an LGBT concern because it gay kids are victimized more often. I say this as a former (straight) victim. Over and out on this subject that cuts pretty close to the bone.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 3, 2012 3:18:54 AM PDT
Bubba says:
Jimmy Carter left the Southern Baptists in 2000.

http://www.bpnews.net/printerfriendly.asp?ID=6719

Oct 24, 2000
"Carter announced Oct. 19 that he could no longer be associated with the Southern Baptist Convention citing among his reasons the Baptist Faith and Message as adopted in June and its stance on female pastors. Carter said he was convinced to leave the SBC after listening to a taped message by Charles Wade, executive director of the Baptist General Convention of Texas."

"Carter discussed a variety of issues surrounding his decision to leave the SBC, including his stances on several controversial issues -- homosexuality and abortion."

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 3, 2012 6:43:25 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 3, 2012 3:28:43 PM PDT
D. Thomas says:
Good for him. He's a rarity - a truly decent and compassionate human being who's wealthy, but walks the walk.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 3, 2012 8:15:58 AM PDT
I remember that. Good for him.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 3, 2012 8:21:52 AM PDT
B. Josephson says:
Carter is definitely the Baptist I admire most. His service after he was president is also exemplary.

Best Wishes,
Shaamba Kaambwaat

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 3, 2012 9:15:18 PM PDT
D. Thomas,

I'll simply add that, aside from all of the _other_ reasons that a person might get bullied, the epithets implying homosexuality are commonly launched at people who are only _perceived to be_ gay, whether or not they actually are gay. The targets are created in the bully's mind; not in the real characters of the victims.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 8, 2012 11:55:18 AM PDT
Bubba says:
It would be ironic if somebody who was bullied for being perceived to be gay was actually a Mormon missionary.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 9, 2012 11:38:35 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 9, 2012 2:48:33 PM PDT
D. Thomas says:
I'm sure similar things happen a lot. Junior high and high school are so conformist that anybody who's not "cool" can be a target. In my high school, there was an apparently gay kid - not me - who was teased and bullied mercilessly. I don't know whether he was actually gay or not, but he hadn't done anything to deserve that. It was awful.

Bullying can be verbal or physical. Here's a story with a happy ending. I was bullied by a BMOC in my math class - I have no idea why. He was the quarterback on the JV football team. (We were a new school without a senior class, so we didn't have a varsity.) One time we were at the blackboard and he took two erasers and was hitting the sides of my face with them. I grabbed an eraser and hit him with it. He swung at me; I ducked and he hit the wall full force. He broke his thumb and couldn't play the rest of the season. All his pals were p*ss*d at me, but it gave me a great deal of satisfaction.

And there's more. After that, one of his buddies kept picking on me in PE class. One day the activity was boxing. He and I somehow ended up in the ring. I wasn't athletic at all, but I was so angry that I went crazy and kept knocking him down. Every time he'd get up, I'd knock him down again, until the coach stopped the fight.

After that, they left me alone.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 9, 2012 12:29:43 PM PDT
B. Josephson says:
Well, of course some LDS missionaries are gay, as I found in my research about the LDS.

In part 2 of the PBS/Frontline documentary The Mormons it has a section where the artist Trevor Southey. who eventually lost his membership when his wife reported his infidelity to her bishop. I find his recounting of how hard he tried to live a heterosexual life very moving, as well as his continued love for LDS. It is found in part 2 of the documentary.
http://video.pbs.org/video/1460862784

While I find this documentary a bit lacking in some areas, it does have advantages over a scholarly book which cannot convey such personal experiences such as Southey's.

Best Wishes,
Shaamba Kaambwaat

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 9, 2012 12:44:13 PM PDT
MaryAnn H. says:
Bullying is one of those horrific parts of childhood that seem to have been encouraged by school coaches and lots of times by parents themselves. I doubt there are many of us who did not lie in bed at night dreading the next day of school when so and so might be lurking - waiting to pounce and either steal lunch money or just brutalize or humiliate for the fun of it. I am glad to see that more focus is being placed on bullying and some of the "games" that encouraged it seem to have been removed from the curriculum.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 9, 2012 12:45:33 PM PDT
MaryAnn H. says:
How do you remain devoted to a doctrine that denounces who you are? Baffling.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 9, 2012 1:01:56 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 9, 2012 1:03:58 PM PDT
B. Josephson says:
MaryAnn life is not so simple. But I suggest you look at the video to see if you can figure it out. He says he is surprised that he still has so many positive feelings for the LDS.

Best Wishes,
Shaamba Kaambwaat

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 9, 2012 2:47:44 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 9, 2012 2:59:37 PM PDT
D. Thomas says:
That's just as bad in one sense, but not in another. It's tough to endure for anybody, but for gay kids, it's yet another burden they have to bear. It must be hard enough to be confused about sex and sexuality - I know I was - but gay kids don't just have to figure out what's expected of them. They must wonder "What's wrong with me? Why are my feelings different from those of other kids?" Teenagers are so attuned to their peers; even without the ugly bullying, it must be sheer hell for a lot of, if not most, gay kids.

It would help a lot if the society would accept the fact that there's NOTHING wrong with being gay, and communicate that to kids - all kids.

There's been a lot of progress. In "my day," Modern Family would not have even been produced. But most people in my age group, especially men, seem hopelessly bigoted.

I've been in some pretty extended arguments with other seniors over gay marriage. Seems the best I can do is to get them to realize that their beliefs - and their votes - hurt innocent people for no good reason.

Posted on Jun 9, 2012 4:51:51 PM PDT
MaryAnn H. says:
"It would help a lot if the society would accept the fact that there's NOTHING wrong with being gay, and communicate that to kids - all kids. "

Ah, if only it could be so. In the schools here, homosexuality is not even allowed to be referenced. Children are not to be told it even exists - the fear is that if it is mentioned, it will be assumed acceptable and we just can't have that. I have easier conversations with my refrigerator.

Posted on Jun 9, 2012 5:21:17 PM PDT
B. Josephson says:
Mary Ann, I found out that Southey had been an LDS missionary, and he has written a book about his life and art. Here is a quote from it:

Southey talks of his life in oxymorons.

"My life is like black and white," he says. "My time in Alpine [Utah] was the most spectacular/heartbreaking/blissful situation. The property was beautiful, the art was transforming. Everything was beautiful on the outside. On the inside there was grief."

"It was the best of times and the worst of times, as they say," he continued.

"Coming out was huge to me," Southey remembers. "I went from the beautiful, large estate in Alpine to a shack on 8th East."

"I remember sitting among boxes in the middle of the room in November and I started to howl like an animal," he said. "At the same time it was pain and relief."
http://gaysaltlake.com/2010/09/16/trevor-southeys-oxymoronic-life-on-display/

I think we try to paint people's life in easy ways, when things are often more complicated.

Best Wishes,
Shaamba Kaambwaat
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In reply to an earlier post on Jun 9, 2012 7:46:04 PM PDT
Tero says:
It all makes sense, if you are religious. Otherwise, not.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 9, 2012 8:32:43 PM PDT
MaryAnn H. says:
What a vivid description and what a duality.

I started watching the clip and was interrupted - will get back to it.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 10, 2012 9:24:08 AM PDT
Bubba says:
"I went from the beautiful, large estate in Alpine to a shack on 8th East."

"I remember sitting among boxes in the middle of the room in November and I started to howl like an animal," he said. "At the same time it was pain and relief."

Wow, I know exactly how he felt; although I went from a big 3 bedroom house to a tiny apartment in Lithonia.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 19, 2012 11:28:35 AM PDT
RaS,

I have found some to assume that god exist, but not all. Based on the assumption, both that god does or doesn't exist, I have found some of each to be sound logic, but not always talking about the same thing! I certainly don't think that a discussion with someone who doesn't believe god exists can be argued using a Biblical explanation, unless of course the motive is to convert at which point they are not longer talking about the same thing. Similarly, if one is asked why they believe something to be true, they are entitled to state that their reasoning to be based on Biblical statements, whether the discussion started out as a religious statement or not. I believe that all of us internalize our beliefs and often do not remember what they were based on. e.g. On my grandfather's farm no one was to eat anything that was artificially coloured green. My father grew up with that and teased us a kids about hating green m&ms etc. In reality he knows that what he was taught was for his safety --- the poison on the farm was coloured green! (I just thought he hated the taste of lime -- which made the m&ms confusing to explain.)

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 19, 2012 11:34:15 AM PDT
Bubba,
Thanks for the update on Jimmy Carter. This also points out that there are thinking people within many of the conservative churches. And I, for one, sometime forget not to assume that all conservatives are "one way".

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 19, 2012 11:39:34 AM PDT
MaryAnn says: I am glad to see that more focus is being placed on bullying and some of the "games" that encouraged it seem to have been removed from the curriculum. >>>

Unfortunately, with our new technologies I'm not sure that the focus on stopping bullying is working. I would like to believe it is, but I'm certainly not convinced.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 19, 2012 11:47:40 AM PDT
MaryAnn H. says:
"I'm not sure that the focus on stopping bullying is working."

I, too, do not know if it is working but I am glad to see that it is being recognized as a serious issue. Getting something really done about it, will take a lot more effort than is being exerted now. Perhaps everyone just needs to get a copy of Taylor Swift's "your just mean".

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 19, 2012 11:53:25 AM PDT
MaryAnn H. says:
This takes me back in the way back machine. I grew up hating whipped cream. Could not stand the sight of it. When I was 14, the truth came out by chance. My mother mentioned to a friend that we had all gotten deathly sea sick on a transatlantic crossing when I was about 3. My mother did not want me to be afraid of the swaying ship or of sea travel, so she told me I was sick because I ate too much whipped cream at the children's party that day. Obviously, I believed her because it stuck for all those years. After I learned where my aversion came from, I happily stuffed my face with it with no ill results. Of course, I tormented my mother for having deprived me of the enjoyment for all those years and now I get easily motion sick - go figure ;)

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 19, 2012 12:12:11 PM PDT
MaryAnn,

Isn't there an old saying: "Be careful what you wish for"?

I'm assuming that it is easier to avoid transatlantic crossing than whipped cream, though. And I, and most of the rest of the passengers on the Independence were also sick --- so it was difficult to blame the ginger ale in my case! If this now included car motion that's a real bother --- I can only recommend watching the horizon from the front seat. Or perhaps you could start hating whipped cream again???

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 19, 2012 12:51:08 PM PDT
MaryAnn H. says:
LOL! I would probably make the trade now. The best cure for my motion sickness is to be the one driving. Also, avoiding curvy mountain roads. Most of the time I am fine as long as I don't try to read anything in a moving car - so I am useless as a navigator.
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Initial post:  Feb 11, 2012
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