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Religion May Become Extinct in Nine Nations


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In reply to an earlier post on Jun 16, 2012 10:42:22 PM PDT
Vicki says:
Dear Schoby,

You do look on the brighter side of humanity!

And you're right- while you point out that slavery is no longer legal, I would answer that it still does go on in the world, even in the U.S.

While you point out that women can now divorce their abusive husbands in the U. S., I would point out that making divorce legal hasn't eliminated spousal abuse.

You would point out that there are fewer dictatorships in the world, and I would point out that there are still enough oppressive governments in the world to make their people miserable.

You would point out that now the murder of innocent people is exposed to the world, and I would point out only if the media happens to think they have room in their news programs between commercials and stories about the latest arrest of some U.S. celebrity.

I think that a person can be realistic and see both the wrong and the right in the world. I just can't get starry-eyed about the idea of human progress, when I still see people get left behind or trampled in the name of progress. I know that there are success stories, and beauty, and redemption, though.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 17, 2012 8:35:47 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 17, 2012 8:37:43 AM PDT
S. Schoby says:
Vicki you may not be aware but you just did something I mentioned in the post you are responding to, it said "Someone may enter into this chat between us and say slavery is still around in places in the world, this view is not considering the history of how it is no longer an accepted practice in the world."

You answered Vicki:" And you're right- while you point out that slavery is no longer legal, I would answer that it still does go on in the world, even in the U.S."

SS: I said this in that post "Someone may say women are still mistreated and abused and this is still not considering how it is not an accepted practice throughout the world."

Vicki you answered in this way. "While you point out that women can now divorce their abusive husbands in the U. S., I would point out that making divorce legal hasn't eliminated spousal abuse."

SS: Someone may say there are still dictatorships in the world and never noticing how few they are when in the past there were more of them.

Vicki says : "You would point out that there are fewer dictatorships in the world, and I would point out that there are still enough oppressive governments in the world to make their people miserable.


SS" Nations ruled by kings are far fewer then in the past, the murdering of the innocent does still happen but it is now exposed more before the world and at times to world will hold them accountable when in the past it was rare to happen.

Vicki says: You would point out that now the murder of innocent people is exposed to the world, and I would point out only if the media happens to think they have room in their news programs between commercials and stories about the latest arrest of some U.S. celebrity.

SS: (This was also said in that post Vicki) If you constantly see only the wrongs in the world you will never notice the right in the world.
If you give up then nothing is gained and many times in this history the human race has fallen yet it as also stood back up.

The if only the media happens to be around to report as you say here
"You would point out that now the murder of innocent people is exposed to the world, and I would point out only if the media happens to think they have room in their news programs between commercials and stories about the latest arrest of some U.S. celebrity.'

SS: That media is also those cell phone taking pictures, the chats people have around the world and the world's reaction it.

Vicki said "While you point out that women can now divorce their abusive husbands in the U. S., I would point out that making divorce legal hasn't eliminated spousal abuse."

SS: Divorce does not cure the abuse in a relationship it allows an escape from the abuse when in the past there was no escape. (Progress)
No one can snap their fingers and bingo the world is now a better place.
The journey of human development is a long road but each step makes the trip a little less long.
The entire post you were responding is was an example of the trip getting a little shorter each time we take those steps.
I'll repeat one of those lines in that post you answered,"If you constantly see only the wrongs in the world you will never notice the right in the world.
If you give up then nothing is gained and many times in this history the human race has fallen yet it as also stood back up.'

SS: Vicki the world is not and perhaps never be a wonderful world for all to live in, but
Vicki it was a lot worst in its past.
Bad things happen but a great many of those bad things are "No longer an accepted practice throughout the world."
Yes there are bad places; the key that has been removing it closely is that they are not as common because we the human race have made them less common.

Women used to not be allowed to vote in all the states, they all can now, slavery was legal before it is not now, divorce was not allowed it is now.
We may never remove all the wrongs in the world but we have allowed an ability to remove them.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 17, 2012 9:45:44 AM PDT
Domenico says:
All true if consider the Western world. Other places have seen regression not progress.

Pictures (scroll down to see them)

http://www.faithfreedom.org/features/news/men-should-be-allowed-sex-slaves-and-female-prisoners-could-do-the-job-and-all-this-from-a-woman-politician-from-kuwait/

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 17, 2012 10:46:44 AM PDT
'probabilist says:
> Early in American history
> voting was limited
> to those who held poverty

Property?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 17, 2012 11:27:47 AM PDT
S. Schoby says:
why do you feel the need to correct a word when you already knew what was being said?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 17, 2012 11:29:36 AM PDT
'probabilist says:
S. Schoby asked:

> why do you feel the need to correct a word
> when you already knew what was being said?

Because I did a triple-take on that sentence, before I was able to sort out what you really meant.

,.-)

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 17, 2012 7:52:39 PM PDT
Faithradha says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Jun 18, 2012 5:46:45 AM PDT
Vicki says:
Dear Schoby,

You said :"Vicki you may not be aware but you just did something I mentioned in the post you are responding to, it said 'Someone may enter into this chat between us and say...' "

Yes, I realize what I did. I'm saying that I am that 'someone'.

You have a lot of faith in human progress, or maybe I should say that you have a lot of confidence in the progress of human society?

But, what about us, individuals, within our society? It's great that women have the vote and slavery is no longer legal and some countries are able to topple their oppressive governments.

Individuals can still be oppressed by their own greed, enslaved by hatreds, addictions, etc., can be subject to feelings of purposelessness and loss.

Some aren't so lucky to live in safe neighborhoods or have intact families that support their children in loving environments. It's really awful what people can do to their very own children in an otherwise progressive society, such as ours.

I see what you mean - that it's wrong to focus ONLY on the bad. I recognise that there are good and lovely things that are going on in the world.

But, I think it is a mistake to think that the good outweighs the bad, in the end. When we make that decision, the negative gets ignored, or put off 'til later, or people start thinking that nothing can be done so they stop caring. (Not that I'm saying that you don't care!)

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 19, 2012 4:08:24 AM PDT
S. Schoby says:
Its when we allow the negative to hold us back, when we allow the negatives to rule over us is when the bad is allowed to rule.
The negative is never ignored, the negative is not allowed to rule.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 19, 2012 6:04:37 AM PDT
Vicki says:
Dear Schoby,

You said :"The negative is never ignored, the negative is not allowed to rule."

Which comes around to the beginning of our discussion, I think- what you consider to be negatives and how you think religion promotes those negatives.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 19, 2012 10:38:00 AM PDT
Domenico says:
She already explained why religion needs to go.

What about you Vicky? How sharply do you differentiate between 'Religion' and Faith?
You've been talking mostly about Faith.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 20, 2012 3:48:42 AM PDT
S. Schoby says:
Regretfully religion has been used to promote the negatives, its use of a god idea to justify a condemning of an innocent lifestyle between to adults that harms no one.
The use of an idea that does not like its dogma its preaching questioned, we see it used to justify a bigotry of other beliefs even when the other belief is also believing in the same god.

The so called intelligent design tactic to counter evolution and the sciences of nature, the universe. (No questions shall be asked or allowed to be asked that might contradict its preaching)
This is religions greatest failure when it is used to excuse and or justify a holding back of the expansion of human knowledge and understanding.
Noting the term "religions" if you want to believe in this god and it helps you in someway then fine, when it is used to falsely justify what could be considered bigotry then it is very wrong.
When it is used to tell others how to live, then it is an intolerance that cares to not understand or learn it only can not tolerate how those others are living.
When it tries to hold back the expansion of human knowledge then it is not a belief in a god, it is the use of a god idea to justify a personal intolerance that wishes conformity.

When someone starts being very negative in your life you can let it rule over you or you can change the subject by injecting humor into the subject or changing the subject, a positive face a positive view attracts positive people around you, the negative brings people down, in ones life you get always take a negative view and be depressed or you can turn a negative into a positive.
That sentence has nothing to do with religion per-say, it has everything to do with what a person lets rule over their personal life.
It helps to get away from those negatives in ones life and allowing one to be around the more positives in life.
If you look down all the time all you will see is the ground, if you look up you see more then just the ground.
It helps to expand friendships that are more positive and not hanging around the negatives, not allow the negative to control our life.

There are over 6 billion people in the world just because the news says something bad happened does not mean the rest of those 6 billion are all doing the same bad things.

One thing that helps is turning that bad news off once in a while and actually being around other people, it's always been a personal choice for what type of people someone wants to be around.
It's always been a personal choice of what someone wants to rule over or not allow to rule over their personal life.

A religion is not needed to tell everyone how to live, we are not all the same and we never have been.
A person learns how to live from the examples learned in a life that is open minded enough to know we will never all live the same way, but we can learn of the differences and expand our knowledge of understanding what is really right and really wrong.
If something you would not like to be done to you why do it to someone else.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 20, 2012 6:00:33 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 20, 2012 3:03:29 PM PDT
Vicki says:
Dear Domenico,

You said :"She already explained why religion needs to go.
What about you Vicky? How sharply do you differentiate between 'Religion' and Faith?
You've been talking mostly about Faith. "

Have I been talking mostly about faith? My faith and religion is based on Jesus Christ. I follow the dogma of Christianity. I study the Bible. I live my faith (or at least I try).

I'm not going to deny that I have a religion- Christianity. It would be impossible for me to separate my faith from my religion. Religion and faith aren't something one does in their head- it is a way of life. It goes into the public sphere and it informs my worldview, thinking, and actions.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 20, 2012 6:20:08 AM PDT
Vicki says:
Dear Schoby,

You said :"Regretfully religion has been used to promote the negatives, its use of a god idea to justify a condemning of an innocent lifestyle between to adults that harms no one."

Christianity definitely identifies engaging in homosexual sex as a sin. It identifies many other sins, as well, that indicate that we are in a sorry state without God's forgiveness.

The overarching culture in the U.S. is changing in the area of morality. Not that I am saying that the U.S. no longer has morals- but that what is thought to be moral and immoral is changing from what it used to be.

There is a lot of fear and consternation from the Christian side, as we see this movement. People like me are trying to come to grips with these changes- trying to figure out how to live faithfully within a culture that we feel is steadily trying to push us toward the edges and marginalizing us.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 20, 2012 11:03:04 AM PDT
Domenico says:
Christianity per se is too vague. Can I ask which kind ?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 20, 2012 3:04:12 PM PDT
Vicki says:
Dear Domenico,

My denomination is Baptist

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 20, 2012 3:36:26 PM PDT
Vicki said:

"Christianity definitely identifies engaging in homosexual sex as a sin. It identifies many other sins, as well, that indicate that we are in a sorry state without God's forgiveness."

True, and that's part of the problem with it (not exclusively to it). Many religions, including Christianity, try to make harmless, consensual behavior into "sins," and then sell the "redemption" for the very "sins" they made up! Ingenious, but not particularly good for people. It's especially effective when the taboos are on the things encountered by essentially every human, and that's why so many religions have taboos on food and sex.

Except for those Jews who observe the kosher laws, most are probably only dimly aware that there even -are- food taboos in the Bible, but they're actually just as common as, if not more so than, the sex ones.

"The overarching culture in the U.S. is changing in the area of morality. Not that I am saying that the U.S. no longer has morals- but that what is thought to be moral and immoral is changing from what it used to be."

Thank you for recognizing that changing morals do not equate to a lack thereof. Too many people do not.

"There is a lot of fear and consternation from the Christian side, as we see this movement. People like me are trying to come to grips with these changes- trying to figure out how to live faithfully within a culture that we feel is steadily trying to push us toward the edges and marginalizing us."

Might I ask what makes that difficult? If you want to go to church every Sunday, go. If you don't want to have sex before you get married, don't. If you don't want to get married to someone of the same gender, you don't have to. If you don't want to use contraception, no one is going to make you. If you think popular entertainment has too much sex, you can find something else to watch. And so on, and so on, and so on.

Now, yes, that might mean there might not be many people like you, since even the majority of those who identify as Christian are liberal and rather nominal Christians. But you don't have to be that way, you're certainly entitled to act on those beliefs. You're just not entitled to make the rest of society go along with you.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 20, 2012 4:29:05 PM PDT
Vicki says:
Dear seraphimblade,

You said :"Might I ask what makes that difficult? If you want to go to church every Sunday, go. If you don't want to have sex before you get married, don't. If you don't want to get married to someone of the same gender, you don't have to. If you don't want to use contraception, no one is going to make you. If you think popular entertainment has too much sex, you can find something else to watch. And so on, and so on, and so on."

That certainly is my intention.

Yet, there are situations that we Christians are finding ourselves in that causes us to choose in the matter of following the new more relaxed morals or those morals taught in the Bible. This is probably good for us- this distinction that is being made between what our worldly culture promotes and what Christianity teaches. It may mean quitting a job or closing one's business and going into another field. It may mean removing children from public school and either finding a private school that is a better fit or homeschooling.

You said :"But you don't have to be that way, you're certainly entitled to act on those beliefs. You're just not entitled to make the rest of society go along with you."

If we are entitled to act on our beliefs, then we have the right to voice our beliefs about laws and to try to pass the laws that we believe are right and work against laws that we believe are wrong- like any other citizen.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 20, 2012 4:34:39 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 20, 2012 4:38:00 PM PDT
Bubba says:
What a coincidence! Your denomination is the same as Westboro Baptist Church!

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 20, 2012 6:43:01 PM PDT
>>>Vicki says:
...

My denomination is Baptist <<<

Whut a shocker.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 20, 2012 6:58:03 PM PDT
Domenico says:
Thanks

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 20, 2012 7:01:40 PM PDT
Domenico says:
You are disrespectful.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 20, 2012 7:07:37 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 20, 2012 7:08:28 PM PDT
Bubba says:
Domenico says: "You are disrespectful."

To whom; Vicki or Westboro Baptist Church? From her posts, her attitudes toward gays are the same as Westboro Baptist Church.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 20, 2012 7:23:35 PM PDT
Domenico says:
No, they are not.

Homosexuality is considered a sin in Christianity. Hooliganism and lack of respect for others' funerals it's also a sin.
There are many cuckoo people in many families/churches and some are unfortunates.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 20, 2012 7:53:27 PM PDT
Bubba says:
Unlike you, Vicky, and others like you, not all Christians hate homosexuals. Why didn't other Baptists object to Westboro Baptist picketing funerals of gay people? Baptists only started objecting when Westboro Baptist started picketing funerals of straight people.
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Discussion in:  Religion forum
Participants:  83
Total posts:  2002
Initial post:  May 23, 2012
Latest post:  Jul 24, 2012

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