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Prove the Existence of God(s)


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In reply to an earlier post on Jul 15, 2012 9:31:30 AM PDT
Irish Lace says:
My DH just finished reading it (gift from middle son for Father's Day) and it challenged him and he enjoyed it.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 15, 2012 9:39:51 AM PDT
mark

I feel the same way. My best mate has just finished his second one week course on cosmology given each year at Oxford University. He completed his D Phil in chemistry at Wofston college Oxford many moons ago (we both did our chemistry bachelors together). I, on the other hand am, like yourself, attempting to keep up by reading the more accessible authors in the field (when I'm not into perversion!!).

TCrown

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 15, 2012 10:06:36 AM PDT
Shakepen says:
Zoltan: As Meursault said to the priest, "Better to burn than disappear."

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 15, 2012 10:07:39 AM PDT
Shakepen says:
Irish: most psychologists would agree with you.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 15, 2012 10:53:09 AM PDT
Re Adam X, 7-15 1:11 AM: "what do you think is the purpose of life?" To make more life. Period.

Of course, humans have the ability to choose their own purpose. Mine is to attempt to educate: to foster rational thought, for the betterment of our species. Which means disabusing people in the belief in deities, supernatural phenomena, and other detritus from an unenlightened age.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 15, 2012 11:03:09 AM PDT
Re Keith Williams, 7-15 3:29 AM: This echoes Descartes' famous "I think, therefore I am." But this is only a start: to survive in the real world, one must recognize that it exists, and construct predictions as to the effects of proposed interactions between yourself and that real world so that you can find food, shelter, and the other necessities of life. How can this be done?
- One constructs theses as to how the world works.
- One then attempts to deduce from such thesis the results of its application in a particular situation. If no such results can be deduced, the thesis is scrapped.
- One then tries to apply this deduction to the results of said application. If the thesis works, fine; if not, you scrap it and start over.
- The concatenation of all remaining theses comprises our knowledge of the universe.

What I have described above is usually called the "scientific method." It can be shown that it is the only method that can work.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 15, 2012 11:11:57 AM PDT
Re mark, 7-15 5:54 AM: "just seems an incredible waste of individual resources." Exactly so -- and it is precisely why I participate in these discussions. It should be obvious that our species will progress more rapidly in wealth and wisdom by eliminating this waste.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 15, 2012 11:23:18 AM PDT
Re Hassan, 7-15 7:32 AM: There are numerous flaws in this.
1. The supposition that "only through the divine (i.e., God) can future scientific insights be foretold" is arrant nonsense. In fact, it can be shown that no thesis involving a god can predict anything whatever [1].
2. There is nothing of science in the Qur'an. It is nothing more than a collection of various ways of saying "believe in me, or I will fry your butt." It also contains a number of errors -- two of which are so serious as to adversely affect Islamic realms to this day. (Yes, I have read it -- twice.)
3. Flogging your book in these forums is tacky, and against Amazon's expressed policy. Amazon has provided a venue called "Meet the authors" for such posts.

1. The proof can be found on the first page of "Belief in the Christian god is absurd". Search Customer Discussions for "saundersg" to find it.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 15, 2012 11:26:00 AM PDT
Re Painter, 7-15 8:05 AM: "Because of peoples' belief in God they behave VERY differently than they would otherwise." Conceded. But that is not in any sense evidence that any such belief is true. I emphasize: It is the belief, not the existence, which is effective.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 15, 2012 11:38:19 AM PDT
D. Thomas says:
It went like this -

Zoltan says:

KW: "This is a childish defense of Christian values and a repugnant slur on all other morally ethical stances."

One can't expect CAM to sell filet mignon when all he's got to peddle is the lowest quality of hamburger.

-----------------

Nothing wrong with that. Amazon's weird sometimes.

Posted on Jul 15, 2012 11:46:02 AM PDT
JP says:
Did someone prove God didn't exist? If someone will prove that, then I'll prove he does. Do you just believe he doesn't exist? Like a religious belief? Your "god" is "no-god"? :)

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 15, 2012 11:59:31 AM PDT
mark says:
Robert,

I gotta tell ya.....there's a Chevy Volt commercial, where this lady, in a stereotypical Quasi- valley girl sing-song says....it's been so long since I bought gas, I almost forgot how to fill my tank.

But that's not the stupid part.

The stupid part is...somewhere, someplace, there had to be a bunch of suits sitting around a table, dreaming this stuff up, with the tacit implication that humanity was generally stupid enough to not see how stupid it was.

For those who can't make the connection to the OP......

See what I mean?

Peace.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 15, 2012 12:01:21 PM PDT
mark says:
DT,

The deleted post shows on my computer as a response to me. Is that not correct?

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 15, 2012 12:17:21 PM PDT
Irish Lace says:
"Did someone prove God didn't exist?"

Yep. Right after he proved that Santa Claus doesn't exist and invented a perpetual motion machine.

"If someone will prove that, then I'll prove he does. "

Aw, why wait? Go ahead, JP. Prove God exists.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 15, 2012 12:51:06 PM PDT
Robert A Saunders

Yes Robert, I'm aware of how we may apply system to the observable universe. What I was addressing could be taken as my own existential conclusions of what I can be CERTAIN of. All else has to be accepted on varying degrees of faith.

I'm also aware of Descartes's reference. I had come to my own conclusions on provable reality at the tender age of 16, before I even read the man (clever b that I am!).

Thanks for your post which goes on to address another aspect of mankind's engagement with reality.

T Crown

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 15, 2012 1:35:44 PM PDT
Charles says:
>Gwaithmir says:

"No, you issued a short burst of insults, to wit:"

WEll i have real problem with people claiming to have so much knowledge because they have 500 books on religions, and don't know that religions and Gods are seperate subjects.

Religions use gods but that is where it ends.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 15, 2012 1:38:48 PM PDT
Charles says:
When Lawrence M. Krauss comes on the board I'll type to him, but you are here now. Give me your answer.

If there is nothing that all of this came from, what is the process that brought this about?"

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 15, 2012 1:45:40 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jul 15, 2012 1:48:37 PM PDT
Santa does exist. Like any charecter in any book, real or fiction, he is a deity that represents a certain phenomenon, or a certain spirit. God is a charecter in the Bible. At first, in the OT, the spirit of God is horribly evil, enacting laws that make it a capitol crime to be Christ-like(anyone who preaches of God in any other way than Moses, and anyone who works on the Sabbath..etc..). Then, in the NT, the role God played is that of an omnipotent loving father to Jesus Christ(who preached of God in a different way than Moses, and healed a man on the sabbath day). It's up to you to decide who God is, and what spiritual phenomenon he truly represents.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 15, 2012 2:04:02 PM PDT
mark says:
Nice one.

Although I do not acknowledge that my thoughts are not my own, but.....

Peace.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 15, 2012 6:11:14 PM PDT
>>>Irish Lace says:

Excuse me again but... I read the parts that are available with the "search inside" feature and found not one word of science. Not one. I heard a lot of rhapsodizing about the Quran and your gushing admiration of it, but no science. This did not whet my appetite to explore this book for its alleged "science." What I DID find was a strong indication that the author is making the classic error of all of those who would "prove" God by means other than empirical evidence: you have assumed the existence of God and are now going to work backwards to make some aspects of actual science "prove" God's existence. <<<

And, sadly, it is the same case with EVERY instance of some superstitionist trying to *prove* the existence of their particular invisible sky-daddy......... from Zeus, to Set, to Horus, to Dionysus, to Jesus to........whoever.

They will FIRST propose that their gawd exists, THEN try to work backward to establish said "existence".

NONE of it holds up to empirical or scientific scrutiny.

NONE.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 15, 2012 6:18:14 PM PDT
>>>David Vincent says:
Santa does exist. Like any charecter in any book, real or fiction, he is a deity that represents a certain phenomenon, or a certain spirit. God is a charecter in the Bible. At first, in the OT, the spirit of God is horribly evil, enacting laws that make it a capitol crime to be Christ-like(anyone who preaches of God in any other way than Moses, and anyone who works on the Sabbath..etc..). Then, in the NT, the role God played is that of an omnipotent loving father to Jesus Christ(who preached of God in a different way than Moses, and healed a man on the sabbath day). It's up to you to decide who God is, and what spiritual phenomenon he truly represents. <<<

Okay.

I have made a conclusion.

HE --your particular gawd-- is EXACTLY the same as the other 10,000 or so gods who have been invented by humankind.

He is non-existent.

You and I agree on 9,999 of said non-existent gawds.

We disagree on ONE.

If you are not bright enough to grasp the implications of that, then I have no urge to converse with you.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 15, 2012 7:19:54 PM PDT
Gwaithmir says:
charles said: "When Lawrence M. Krauss comes on the board I'll type to him, but you are here now. Give me your answer."

"If there is nothing that all of this came from, what is the process that brought this about?"

>Nice dodge, charles. Sorry, but if you lack the integrity to look up and read an article on your own, I can't help you.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 15, 2012 8:27:45 PM PDT
Irish Lace says:
Yeah, I'm pretty sure he's a Poe.

A really, really GOOD Poe.

But a Poe nevertheless.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 15, 2012 8:34:51 PM PDT
Charles says:
[Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Show post anyway. Show all unhelpful posts.]

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 15, 2012 8:44:18 PM PDT
doulos says:
Both of you came into life a clean slate. Nothing in your mind at all. We all learn from others. And it is a command. Not a suggestion to study. Sadly I have to read both the good, bad and the ugly to answer question. Both in this case are dodging. especially the person criticizing the christians. He gave A BIG ZERO of an answer. This will NOT justify when you stand before almighty God, on that great and terrible day. Your own words will condemn you. see, Matthew 12:36
I suggest you do this. And quit making lame excuses. 2 Timothy 2:15 & 3:16
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Discussion in:  Religion forum
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Initial post:  Dec 28, 2011
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