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What ever happened to Prop 8

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Initial post: Nov 29, 2011 11:48:21 AM PST
Maya says:
Is it dead, did the gays and lesbian stop fighting it, or still pushing forth?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2011 12:50:47 PM PST
compuhorse says:
What ever happened to Prop 8?

No one cares, that's why you don't hear about it.

Posted on Nov 29, 2011 12:54:47 PM PST
Rev. Otter says:
"United States district court Judge Vaughn R. Walker overturned Proposition 8 on August 4, 2010 in the case Perry v. Schwarzenegger, ruling that it violated both the Due Process and Equal Protection clauses of the United States Constitution.[11] Judge Walker issued an injunction against enforcing Proposition 8 and a stay to determine suspension of his ruling pending appeal.[12][13] The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals continued the stay, keeping Judge Walker's ruling on hold pending appeal.[14]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_8

Posted on Nov 29, 2011 1:00:14 PM PST
Short version:

U.S. District Judge Walker ruled that that Proposition 8 was un-Constitutional.

That ruling is on hold pending an appeal to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals.

Longer version: See Rev. Otter's post.

Someone voted his post down... which indicates they don't understand what "Does this post add to the discussion?" means.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2011 1:01:32 PM PST
"Is it dead, did the gays and lesbian stop fighting it..."

Ahem... a very large number of straight people did and are fighting Proposition 8, too. Indeed, at this point a majority of Californians, and a majority of Americans, favor legalized same-sex marriage.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2011 1:13:43 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 29, 2011 1:15:55 PM PST
ArmyMan says:
"No one cares, that's why you don't hear about it."

People do care and you do hear about it in California.

It has been going through the court system. The latest is that there was an issue on whether the proponents had "standing" i.e. legal standing to challenge the law suit against it after then governor Schwarzenneger and attorney general Jerry Brown would not do so.

The California Supreme Court ruled last month that they do have standing. The case is now back with the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals.

This whole issue will probably go to the U.S. Supreme Court eventually.

Posted on Nov 29, 2011 1:27:10 PM PST
DMP says:
For those who genuinely *do* care, you can follow the up-to-date progress of Prop 8 through the trial system here:

http://tinyurl.com/6phwag6

Basically what's happening, however, is that those against equal rights are drawing the process out for as long as they can--knowing eventually it will be ruled unconstitutional. In the meantime, there are elderly gay couples who will have partners pass on before they're given equal status under the law like all other Americans. It's ugly to behold, as religionists continue to try to enforce their antiquated and archaic beliefs into the secular laws of our nation.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2011 1:28:24 PM PST
Rev. Otter says:
<<Someone voted his post down...>>

meh, pro'lly just some atheist who obviously hates ordained Reverends ;)

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2011 1:46:58 PM PST
A. Caplan says:
ArmyMan says: This whole issue will probably go to the U.S. Supreme Court eventually.
>Then the question will be as to whether the conservative justices will let their ".....sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right."

The whole quote is, "Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right." - Isaac Asimov

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2011 1:53:05 PM PST
I don't expect Scalia or Thomas to do what's right... I expect them to do what serves their personal ideologies, justice and law be damned.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2011 2:03:32 PM PST
A. Caplan says:

Then the question will be as to whether the conservative justices will let their ".....sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right."

----

At least on the current Supreme Court, the decision would likely come down to Justice Kennedy. We can be reasonably sure that Justices Ginsburg, Breyer, Sotomayor and Kagan would vote to strike down Prop 8, while was can be reasonably sure that Chief Justice Roberts and Justices Scalia, Thomas and Alito would vote to uphold it. So it comes down to Kennedy.

On matters of treatment of the various sexualities, genders, etc., Justice Kennedy often sides with the liberal part of the court. He co-wrote the Court's decision in Planned Parenthood v. Casey, upholding Roe v. Wade, he wrote the decision in Romer v. Evans striking down a Colorado state constitutional amendment that would provide greater legal protection to heterosexuals than homosexuals, he wrote the decision in Lawrence v. Texas holding that a Texas state law criminalizing homosexual sodomy was unconstitutional, etc.

It's difficult to say exactly how Kennedy would rule, but at a guess I'd say he would strike down Prop 8. But this would likely be a couple years from now, and odds are good that Justice Ginsburg will have retired by then, given her poor health, so the Court composition may be dramatically different at that time, and Kennedy may no longer be the decisive vote.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2011 2:06:12 PM PST
DMP says:
Michael ~

Speaking of doing what's right--a lot of ugly mess could be cleaned up if Congress realized the unconstitutionality of DOMA and overturned that. Sooner rather than later.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2011 2:08:33 PM PST
The gays and lesbians were momentarily occupied, but there were still all those pesky straight people who believe in liberty and making one's own adult choices.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2011 8:53:09 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 30, 2011 11:46:11 AM PST
ArmyMan says:
Michael:

"I don't expect Scalia or Thomas to do what's right... I expect them to do what serves their personal ideologies, justice and law be damned."

Actually, most of the justices do that--they intellectualize their visceral impulses.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2011 9:27:18 PM PST
A customer says:
I share your concern about SCOTUS, but I feel that there is hope. SCOTUS did strike down sodomy laws in Lawrence v. Texas.

One way or the other it's going to happen. Either state by state, or if Perry v. Schwarzenegger, or another case like it, is held up by the Supreme Court.

The Pew Research Center recently released a poll indicating that 46% of Americans support gay marriage, while only 44 oppose.

Equality is inevitable.

Posted on Nov 29, 2011 9:35:11 PM PST
Ace says:
[Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Show post anyway. Show all unhelpful posts.]

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2011 9:44:05 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 29, 2011 9:58:07 PM PST
"I don't see why gays want to marry anyways..."

They want to marry for all of the same reasons that straight couples want to marry.

"... and I tell you what's going to happen. Last election, gays did nothing, until it was over. This election watch same thing. They will wait after the fact, to cry about it."

Every time there is legislation being voted on that particularly impacts the rights of gay and lesbian citizens, there is a *huge* amount of effort being put in by groups who both oppose and support equality for gays and lesbians.

There are plenty of people, both gay *and straight*, who are fighting to get our gays and lesbians the same rights that straight citizens enjoy.

"I don't think gays really care about same sex marriage, they just want to be heard."

Some care, and some don't, just as some straight people care about marriage, and some don't.

But, a great many of us, both gay *and straight* care a great deal about equality and justice... and the issue of same-sex marriage is about exactly that: equality and justice.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2011 9:47:38 PM PST
A customer says:
"I don't think gays really care about same sex marriage, they just want to be heard."

That's probably why whenever a state legalizes same sex marriage, thousands of same sex couples rush to get married.

Posted on Nov 29, 2011 9:56:14 PM PST
Ace says:
[Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Show post anyway. Show all unhelpful posts.]

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2011 10:05:06 PM PST
Re original post: It is still being kicked around in the courts. The latest decision was that the proponents had a right to appeal a Federal court's ruling that it was unconstitutional, given that the State of California bugged out on its legal duty to do so. Next step is probably proceedings in the Federal 9th Circuit. See also Otter and Altarriba, above.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2011 10:09:20 PM PST
A customer says:
"There's no reason why gays didn't win the no vote."

Couldn't have had anything to do with the support Prop 8 recieved from the Roman Catholic Church, the Church of Latter Day Saints, and various organizations like Focus on the Family, or the 39.9 million dollars spent by various groups to get it passed.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2011 10:11:04 PM PST
DMP says:
Not to mention the fact that those millions of dollars were used to tell lies.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 30, 2011 5:11:06 AM PST
Bubba says:
The problem is that gays and supporters couldn't be heard over the fear and outright lies that were being spread by the advertising that was financed by millions and millions of dollars of tax free dollars that the pro-Prop 8 group had at its disposal.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 30, 2011 5:14:16 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 30, 2011 5:19:41 AM PST
Bubba says:
The State of California did not "bug out"; it has no legal requirement to support Prop 8. The California Supreme court had already declared that a law against same sex marriage was unconstitutional. The state has no legal requirement to defend a law, especially one that its own Supreme court has found to be unconstitutional.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 30, 2011 10:22:08 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 30, 2011 11:58:43 AM PST
ArmyMan says:
For the record: the opponents spent $43.3 million--more than the proponents.

There were also religious groups among the opponents.
From Wikipedia:

All six Episcopal diocesan bishops in California jointly issued a statement opposing Proposition 8 on September 10, 2008.[89] Southern California's largest collection of rabbis, the Board of Rabbis of Southern California, voted to oppose Proposition 8.[90] Other Jewish groups who opposed Proposition 8 include Jewish Mosaic,[91] the American Jewish Committee, Progressive Jewish Alliance, National Council of Jewish Women, and the Anti-Defamation League.[62] Los Angeles Jews were more opposed to Prop 8 than any other religious group or ethnic group in the city. Jewish Angelenos voted 78% against the measure while only 8% supported the measure; the remainder declined to respond.[92] The legislative ministry of the Unitarian Universalists opposed Proposition 8, and organized phone banks toward defeating the measure.[93] They see opposition to the proposition as a civil rights and social justice issue and their actions against it as a continuation of their previous works in civil rights.

In addition, the California Council of Churches issued a statement urging the "immediate removal of Proposition 8" - saying that it infringes on the freedom of religion for churches who wish to bless same-sex unions.[94]
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Initial post:  Nov 29, 2011
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