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I REALLY wish that Atheists would just give it a rest...

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Initial post: Feb 28, 2012 10:18:59 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 28, 2012 10:22:26 AM PST
Rock Fan says:
... because it doesn't matter what the evidence is, you can argue until you are blue in the face, all that matters is that people want a happy ending and fit in the group, that and Atheism is just too depressing!

As an agnostic, I've wondered why God (if He/She/It exists) hasn't intervened when massacres occur, but aren't great artistic works a product of the mind of the Universe, or God? But as far as modern religion goes, believers will subconsciously discard all scientific evidence contrary to their position, it's called Cognitive Dissonance. Do they want to be ostracised from their cliche/group? No, so they will go with the crowd, even if something nags constantly at their subconscious. Admittedly, this makes for a society that is easily controlled, but our evolved patchwork brains are not perfect, they can be manipulated. (Even a terrorist is selfish, I don't pretend to know all of their motives, aren't they still expecting a wonderful afterlife?)
Am I guilty of cognitive dissonance? Yes I am, just like every other human, even all those know-it-alls that don't have a clue.

The 2nd scariest group of people in the world are those who are absolutely certain of everything because some ancient source of information is supposedly infallible. The absolutely scariest are those who are absolutely certain of everything and that realize how "hackable" the 2nd group is, especially if they use their own emotions against them! I'd put the handlers of modern politicians in the first group, whoever is controlling the message is an absolute threat to democracy. Our society has been their playgound for far too long, we should be evolving, not DEVOLVING!

Posted on Feb 28, 2012 10:35:29 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 29, 2012 8:03:22 PM PST
Hi Rock Fan:

"...believers will subconsciously discard all scientific evidence contrary to their position, it's called Cognitive Dissonance."

I just call it religious nonsense. Who needs a brain when he or she can just believe in religion?

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 28, 2012 11:00:04 AM PST
Stan Furman says:
It takes brains to believe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fideism

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 28, 2012 11:11:38 AM PST
Hi Stan:

You are correct. It takes a brain to believe; it just takes a brainwashed brain to believe.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 28, 2012 11:23:27 AM PST
Stan Furman says:
Well, according to cited wiki page, believing is an act of defiance towards superiority of reason. I think it takes a very strong reasoning to be able to arrive at a conclusion that reason itself is limited and therefore is not to be worshiped or followed in all and every circumstances...
:)

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 28, 2012 1:15:28 PM PST
A customer says:
Stan, that particular "reason" is "above" thought hence the superiority to reasoning...though I wouldn't apply that definition to believing. :-)

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 28, 2012 1:34:15 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 28, 2012 1:36:27 PM PST
sfon says:
Rock Fan says: "...and Atheism is just too depressing!"

You may find atheism depressing, but I do not find it depressing at all. I also don't consider it a proper noun, because it isn't.

Rock Fan says: "...all that matters is that people want a happy ending..."

I'd rather just have a happy life than spend it worrying about the ending. If you had the opportunity to spend a wonderful day at the park, would you spend it being depressed that the park would eventually close?

Rock Fan says: "...and fit in the group..."

That depends on the group. I would rather be genuine and then fit into a group that I actually 'fit' into.

I understand that atheists are not a cohesive group... one cannot fit in with all atheists because they are too diverse. But there are other natural groupings of people to fit into.

Rock Fan says: "...aren't great artistic works a product of the mind of the Universe, or God?"

Only if you believe that the universe has a mind. I believe that great artistic works are the products of the various artists' minds, and that natural works are the products of nature.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 28, 2012 1:40:15 PM PST
If you are saying that one needs to use critical thinking, I agree. I really do not care too much about wiki pages. They cannot be used when documenting writing.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 28, 2012 1:41:47 PM PST
sfron:

I agree. No one needs God to be creative.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 28, 2012 2:46:50 PM PST
Dr H says:
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Rock Fan sez:
Atheism is just too depressing!
======
For some non-atheists, perhaps.

The atheists, OTOH, seem to be a pretty happy and spirited bunch.

------
aren't great artistic works a product of the mind of the Universe, or God?
======
Nope. They're a product of the mind of the artist that created them, who is, in turn, a product of his/her culture.

Posted on Feb 28, 2012 2:58:23 PM PST
You need to get your priorities straight, and first tell religious believers to give it a rest.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 28, 2012 2:58:30 PM PST
Dr H says:
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Stan Furman sez:
It takes brains to believe.
======
Actually, only a few small pieces of a brain.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,507605,00.html

Posted on Feb 29, 2012 12:50:14 AM PST
Rock Fan says:
I think that in this world of "every opposing idea deserves an equal hearing", my roundabout point was missed. If I was a betting man, being agnostic, I would select atheism as more likely than theism, simply because of the scientific evidence. I have seen no direct evidence of God, maybe some empirical indirect events that SEEM supernatural (strange coincidences, the beauty of nature etc) but might be chalked up to randomness. I have also wondered about God's (if He/She/It exists) callousness to world events. So that would be "reasonable doubt". If He is omniscient, then He is either indifferent to horrors (He could do something but won't), or impotent (He would do something but can't!). If you are a "religious newbie" and are trying to decide on a religious framework to carry you through life, atheism has a built-in disadvantage. I am sure many people choose a belief system (the ones that are not raised to believe a certain way) by considering the features one or the other extols. They weigh them fairly even when certain ideas (such as a Young Earth) have been completely discredited. But if they're young, they don't know that, they pick the one with the best "features". "Yes, I want an afterlife, so I will pick the religion with a wonderful afterlife! I don't want to blink into nothingness, so I won't be a depressing atheist!" That was the point I was trying to make. Whether you believe half-heartedly or whole-heartedly, the real outcome (whatever that is) cannot change. But the human mind subconsciously wants reality to be the way they believe it is, that may be why people stick with beliefs that give them nagging doubts, they STILL want it to be true. Just as the number of followers cannot affect a religion's validity, (it's not like an election), whether or not you believe it has no effect on whether or not it's true!
After all that, I still think I'll remain an agnostic, that might sound wishy-washy to an atheist (or a theist for that matter), but maybe there's a kind God who gives it all his/her might, but still fails because they're not Omniscient OR Omnipotent, but still succeeds sometimes because He/She/It is doing the best He/She/It can.

P.S. I need a synonym for He/She/It!

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 29, 2012 5:31:39 AM PST
"...atheism has a built-in disadvantage."

Atheism's only disadvantage is theism. There are too many marbles in a theist's brain. Some might fall out and roll around the floor.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 29, 2012 5:57:06 AM PST
Stan Furman says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Feb 29, 2012 10:11:03 AM PST
Hi Stan:

I probably will not take any more university courses. I only have a Master of Arts degree in English, but I have about 150 units beyond that. I am done with college. I only learn and study and do what I wish these days, and that is mostly paint.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 29, 2012 11:11:26 AM PST
Stan Furman says:
Good for you. Anyway, I am only trying to point out that some things appear stupid when they are in fact extremely complex - choosing faith over reason is one of those things. No-Voting a simple pointer to wiki page describing the topic, really only shows low level of those who press the "No" button... Makes me smile :)

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 29, 2012 11:12:41 AM PST
Stan Furman says:
That's a few small pieces more than it takes to opt for the alternative... :)))

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 29, 2012 4:08:43 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 29, 2012 4:13:18 PM PST
Dr H says:
------
Rock Fan sez:
"Yes, I want an afterlife, so I will pick the religion with a wonderful afterlife! I don't want to blink into nothingness, so I won't be a depressing atheist!"
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Well this assumes a few things. For one, that the concept of 'blinking into nothingness' after a full and eventful life is necessarily 'depressing'. For another, that they are able to find a religion with a wonderful afterlife that doesn't involve a lifetime of asceticism, mortification, and self-denial -- under threat of eternal torture for slipping up -- to get to that afterlife. Personally, I find -that- concept pretty damned depressing.

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After all that, I still think I'll remain an agnostic, that might sound wishy-washy to an atheist (or a theist for that matter),...
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I don't consider it wishy-washy. Agnosticism is a valid position. I considered myself an agnostic for a while, before I came to realize that I really truly did NOT belive, probably had NEVER believed, and was unlikely to ever COME to believe, sans evidence, which thus far has not been forthcoming. You too may get to that point eventually, or you may not.

Either way, life is what you make of it, so try not to do things that make it miserable.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 29, 2012 4:10:38 PM PST
Dr H says:
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Lawrence Holcomb sez:
I only learn and study and do what I wish these days, and that is mostly paint.
======
Interior or exterior?

Just kidding. :-)

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 29, 2012 4:12:07 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 29, 2012 4:14:17 PM PST
Dr H says:
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Stan Furman sez:
That's a few small pieces more than it takes to opt for the alternative... :)))
======
Sounds like you're saying that to choose atheism is a no-brainer.

I could go with that. ;-)

Posted on Feb 29, 2012 4:31:28 PM PST
Serene Night says:
Everyone is different. Some people find religion depressing, too. =-)

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 29, 2012 5:56:03 PM PST
IFeelFree says:
Dr H: ...I came to realize that I really truly did NOT belive...

IFF: Don't believe what? A religious God? Neither do I. However, I believe in an afterlife, so I suppose that would disqualify me from being an atheist. I think there are gradations between theist and atheist.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 29, 2012 8:13:03 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 29, 2012 8:14:21 PM PST
Dr H

Interesting question: Do I paint the interior or the exterior of something? Plus I must ponder the connotations of the question. I paint on paper and canvas, so I paint on the exterior of the paper and canvas. However, the painting then hangs on a living room wall, say, and then, of course, is part of the interior. All this exterior and interior discussion, however, you know, does not quite sound right. It is just a painting, after all.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 29, 2012 8:20:19 PM PST
S. Friedman says:
Or is it graffiti?
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Discussion in:  Religion forum
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Initial post:  Feb 28, 2012
Latest post:  Sep 21, 2012

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