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gay, devout Mormon married to a woman, has 3 kids


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Initial post: Jun 14, 2012 12:07:52 AM PDT
AxeGrrl says:
Here's just an excerpt from the article (the entire thing is _much_ longer):

"I guess the premise of this post is to share that not only am I homosexual, but I'm also a devout and believing Mormon. And that I'm very happily married to a woman, and have been for ten years now.

And for the first time, we're talking about it publicly.

1. Why have you decided to share this information?

We have several reasons for opening up about this part of our lives. First and foremost, my clinical work as a therapist is taking me in the direction of helping clients who struggle to reconcile their sexual orientation with their religious beliefs. I have decided to be open with these clients about my own homosexuality, and in doing so have opened the door to people finding out about this in ways I can't control. Therefore, we thought it would be wise to be the ones who told those we love about this part of our lives. Posting on the blog was the simplest way to make sure that happened as it would be impossible to sit all of the people we have known and loved in our lives down and share this personally.

The second reason is that the issue of homosexuality is not very well understood. We wanted to add our voice and experience to the dialogue taking place about this very sensitive issue.

Thirdly, I (Josh) feel the desire to be more open regarding this part of my identity. I have found that sharing this part of me allows my relationships with others to be more authentic. It has deepened my friendships and enhanced my interactions, and it has also helped me to feel more accepted by others as it allows others the opportunity to choose to accept me for who I really am.

2. What do you mean when you say you're "gay"?

When I say I am gay or homosexual or same-sex attracted (and I use these terms interchangeably, which is a personal decision) I refer specifically to sexual orientation. I am sexually attracted to men. I am not sexually attracted to women. It is very simple. I have many, many years of experience which confirm this to be true, but it's really as simple as what a girl asked me* in junior high-and I'm sorry if this is a little blunt, but I've never found a question that cuts to the heart of the matter more effectively- "so, if everyone in this room took off their clothes, would you be turned on by the girls or the guys?" My answer, which I didn't say out loud, was unquestionably the guys. And it was unquestionably not the girls. And that still is my answer. It's really not very complicated. Most people just don't think about their sexual orientation because they don't have any reason to.

*Why did a girl ask me that question in junior high? Because a bully actively spread a rumor around the entire school that I was a "woman trapped in a man's body." This was unbelievably horrific and traumatizing, and I was harassed every single day about it, often by perfect strangers. I was more effeminate, played the violin, didn't play sports, was never interested in girls and didn't hang out with guys, and so people glommed onto that rumor and ruthlessly harassed me for the entire year, culminating in a yearbook filled with breathtakingly insensitive taunts. Being the gay kid is really, really hard in junior high. If you know a gay kid in junior high, give them a hug and tell them you love them. I assure you they could use it.

3. When did you know you were gay?

I knew I was gay when I was 11 or 12. That's the onset of puberty, when humans begin to feel sexual attractions. For a little while I was waiting for the attraction to girls to set in because that's what everyone said would happen, but then there was a sinking moment of realization-a thought like "oh, this thing for guys is its replacement." I told my parents shortly thereafter, when it seemed pretty clear that my sexuality wasn't playing a trick on me, and the girl thing wasn't going to happen, but the guy thing was totally happening. I was 13 when I told my dad (a member of the Stake Presidency-which is a lay leader in the Mormon church-at the time). My parents were incredibly loving and supportive, which is part of why I believe I'm so well adjusted today. They deserve serious props for being so loving and accepting-I never felt judged or unwanted or that they wished to change anything about me. That's part of why I have never been ashamed about this part of myself. (I feel plenty of shame about other irrational things, like the fact that I can't catch a ball or change a tire (as you may have noticed on the blog)-and I'm working on that stuff because toxic shame isn't a good thing. But I've never been shameful about who I am, or about this feature of me as a critical part of my person, which it is in the same way that sexuality is a critical part of any person.)

4. If you're married to a woman, how can you really be gay?

This is a really good question and I can see how people can be confused about it. Some might assume that because I'm married to a woman, I must be bisexual. This would be true if sexual orientation was defined by sexual experience. Heck, if sexual orientation were defined by sexual experience, I would be as straight as the day is long even though I've never been turned on by a Victoria's Secret commercial in my entire life. Sexual orientation is defined by attraction, not by experience. In my case, I am attracted sexually to men. Period. Yet my marriage is wonderful, and Lolly and I have an extremely healthy and robust sex life. How can this be?

The truth is, what people are really asking with the above question is "how can you be gay if your primary sex partner is a girl?" I didn't fully understand the answer to this question until I was doing research on sexuality in grad school even though I had been happily married for almost five years at that point. I knew that I was gay, and I also knew that sex with my wife was enjoyable. But I didn't understand how that was happening. Here is the basic reality that I actually think many people could use a lesson in: sex is about more than just visual attraction and lust and it is about more than just passion and infatuation. I won't get into the boring details of the research here, but basically when sex is done right, at its deepest level it is about intimacy. It is about one human being connecting with another human being they love. It is a beautiful physical manifestation of two people being connected in a truly vulnerable, intimate manner because they love each other profoundly. It is bodies connecting and souls connecting. It is beautiful and rich and fulfilling and spiritual and amazing. Many people never get to this point in their sex lives because it requires incredible communication, trust, vulnerability, and connection. And Lolly and I have had that from day one, mostly because we weren't distracted by the powerful chemicals of infatuation and obsession that usually bring a couple together (which dwindle dramatically after the first few years of marriage anyway). So, in a weird way, the circumstances of our marriage allowed us to build a sexual relationship that is based on everything partners should want in their sex-life: intimacy, communication, genuine love and affection. This has resulted in us having a better sex life than most people I personally know. Most of whom are straight. Go fig"

you can read the whole thing here:

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/club-unicorn-i-am-a-gay-devout-mormon-happily-married-to-a-woman-with-three

Posted on Jun 14, 2012 12:28:20 PM PDT
AxeGrrl says:
So, any thoughts on Josh's choice?

or him being a therapist to others?

Posted on Jun 14, 2012 2:25:21 PM PDT
dischism says:
AxeGrrl

I found your post on the Christianity forum and came over to investigate.

This has got my head in a whirl.

So this completely homosexual man has married a women who he's not attracted to in any way shape or form. She married him, knowing he was left cold by her physical form. They're bright and shiny and happy and have a *wonderful* sex life and are propagating this story as an example to others and he's a therapist who's spreading his story amongst his vulnerable patients.

Oh, boy.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 14, 2012 2:33:40 PM PDT
AxeGrrl says:
dischism wrote: "So this completely homosexual man has married a women who he's not attracted to in any way shape or form"
~~~~

And yet, they have a "robust sex life".

*wondering what's going on inside his head while he's being intimate with the wife*

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 14, 2012 2:42:05 PM PDT
dischism says:
< And yet, they have a "robust sex life".

*wondering what's going on inside his head while he's being intimate with the wife*>

I wonder how she really feels, knowing he looks at her and goes "meh".

I also wonder what he means when he says his parents were very supportive.

Posted on Jun 14, 2012 2:47:57 PM PDT
J. Russell says:
My comments?
Well he is having sex with somebody he is not sexually attracted to. How can that be anything other than a duty. How does his wife feel when she knows that his having sex with her is in reality nothing but a duty. It must make her feel really desirable .....not.

He says he feels genuine love and affection as well as communication. Did she know he was "gay" before they got married? How does she feel knowing he really wants to have sex with somebody else REGARDLESS of his affection for her. I can feel real affection for many people, yet feeling affection is not the same as having a sexual desire for them. I have several friends that I share intimacy with but I feel no need to have sex with them.
To me it just feels like you are not being true to your real self. It feels, to me, like you are supressing your real feelings for the sake of other people approvial.

I'll just finish with this thought:
"How much easier is self-sacrifice than self-realization."
Eric Hoffer

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 14, 2012 3:08:45 PM PDT
Craig says:
Hi dischism, do you think the guy is fooling himself? I think it is possible for this guy to be happy without fulfilling his true sexuality. I doubt there are many people who could do what he says he is doing and be happy, but it's possible. What the guy said about intimacy not being dependent on sexual attraction is true. I was not attracted to my wife when we first met. That came later as we became friends learned to love each other. I,m hetero so I can't relate to his particular situation, but some of the things he said resonated with me.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 14, 2012 3:13:24 PM PDT
Craig says:
J. Russell says: "It feels, to me, like you are supressing your real feelings for the sake of other people approvial."

But for this guy it isn't just other peoples approval, he's seeking Gods approval. Part of his real self is his Christianity also. Believe me, I know it's hard to have conflicts between self identities. I have them too.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 14, 2012 5:07:26 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 14, 2012 11:57:12 PM PDT
AxeGrrl says:
Craig wrote: "I think it is possible for this guy to be happy without fulfilling his true sexuality."
~~~~

I think so too, but I think the bigger issue is.....why would you do that? why would you deliberately live a life that's _contrary_ to your nature?

If a religion taught that heterosexuality was 'sinful' and a person went out and started a life with someone of the same sex, despite the fact they are heterosexual and have no same sex attraction, people would say "that's messed up" and they'd be right......

this situation is no different, imo.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 14, 2012 5:14:00 PM PDT
J. Russell says:
There are several branches of Christianity that do not espouse homophobia.
Maybe he should have a talk with one of their ministers and hear what they have to say about the Bible and Homosexuality.
Here is one example:

http://mccchurch.org/download/theology/homosexuality/BibleandHomosexuality.pdf

The truth is that he is a gay man choosing to remain in a type of Christianity that is anti-gay.
How can this be considered anything except an act of self hatred?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 14, 2012 8:21:42 PM PDT
Bubba says:
I have been there, and in my opinion what he is doing is really messed up.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 14, 2012 10:47:57 PM PDT
dischism says:
Craig

At least he and his wife both understood the situation and went into it with eyes wide open.

I suppose she has the security of knowing he's *highly* unlikely to cheat on her with another woman.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 15, 2012 11:34:49 AM PDT
Craig says:
AxeGrrl, I totally agree with you, but having been a very devout believer at one time I also understand his position. He is a homosexual and also a believer in the Christian God which doesn't approve (at least that is some peoples position) of homosexuality. I personally got tired of denying my true identity and let go of my notions of who God is. I'm not homosexual but to a verying degree I guess I could be considered transgender, which is also not cool with the church. Ultimately I had to come to a conclusion whether I would deny my own identity or embrace it, I chose the latter. Maybe this guy will too someday.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 15, 2012 11:39:14 AM PDT
Craig says:
J. Russell says: "The truth is that he is a gay man choosing to remain in a type of Christianity that is anti-gay. How can this be considered anything except an act of self hatred?"

I hope someday the guy realizes what you are saying is true.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 15, 2012 11:40:38 AM PDT
Craig says:
Maybe, but he will probably eventually get tired of fighting his true nature and cheat on her with a guy.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 15, 2012 12:02:57 PM PDT
AxeGrrl says:
Craig wrote: "AxeGrrl, I totally agree with you, but having been a very devout believer at one time I also understand his position. He is a homosexual and also a believer in the Christian God which doesn't approve (at least that is some peoples position) of homosexuality. I personally got tired of denying my true identity and let go of my notions of who God is. I'm not homosexual but to a verying degree I guess I could be considered transgender, which is also not cool with the church. Ultimately I had to come to a conclusion whether I would deny my own identity or embrace it, I chose the latter. Maybe this guy will too someday."
~~~~

Kudos to you for embracing your true identity instead of accepting a second-hand, inaccurate and toxic one _imposed_ on you, Craig :)

I understand his postion too and respect that _he_ is the one who should decide how he lives his life, which is why I don't really have any 'issue' with his personal decision (mainly because he's being completely _honest_ about it, especially with his wife)

It's the fact that he's trying to influence _others_ to do the same that I find incredibly sad.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 15, 2012 12:27:54 PM PDT
Craig says:
AxeGrrl says: "It's the fact that he's trying to influence _others_ to do the same that I find incredibly sad."

I agree, there are very few people in this world who can do what he is claiming and remain true to their God. He is setting others up for a fall, maybe even himself.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 15, 2012 1:07:06 PM PDT
Bubba says:
His "counseling" gay men to deny their sexuality isn't any different from exodus or narth "counseling" gay men to do the same thing; it is bad no matter who does it.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 15, 2012 1:22:48 PM PDT
Craig says:
I agree Bubba.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 15, 2012 2:30:55 PM PDT
dischism says:
Craig

I think that's very likely, and I also think it will eat him up with guilt.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 15, 2012 2:35:51 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 15, 2012 3:18:15 PM PDT
dischism says:
Craig

I'm glad you're comfortable in your own skin now. :)

I think it's a very hard row to hoe if you worship a deity that you're convinced doesn't love the true you.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 15, 2012 3:13:07 PM PDT
Craig says:
I'm glad too. At first I went through a lot of inner strife, but worked through that and I am at peace with who I am. I try to be myself as much as possible but there are still a lot of folk in society who aren't comfortable around someone who is different than them. I think what helped a lot is when I started working with a guy who was totally comfortable around me when I came to work with nail polish on. He is 30, so maybe the younger folk are getting tired of being told what is normal. I still go to church and sometimes I am quite fem in my attire. Not nail polish or skirts but still I can look fairly fem if I want. I push it as far as my wife will let me though. ;-) I suspect someday I'll be confronted by someone at church who isn't comfortable, it wont be pretty. ;-)

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 15, 2012 3:21:17 PM PDT
dischism says:
Is your wife quite cool with it so far?

Have you thought about how you'll react if somebody in church is confrontational?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 15, 2012 3:34:20 PM PDT
Craig says:
My wife was cool with me before we got married, she helps me pick out clothes and does my nails if I ask. She is a great woman IMHO.

I don't worry much about stuff like that. It will depend on what happens and who it is. Funny though how people will pick a certain "sin" to hate and forget about what they might be doing that is wrong. I would probably just turn it right back into their face.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 15, 2012 8:14:15 PM PDT
dischism says:
You're a lucky guy and I'm so glad you found each other. :)

Absolutely - a "sin" that someone knows that they're not doing themselves is obviously *much* worse.
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Discussion in:  Religion forum
Participants:  17
Total posts:  108
Initial post:  Jun 14, 2012
Latest post:  Jun 18, 2012

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