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If a Conservative Christian Church said, "We don't want the state involved in Sanctioning our Bible Based marriages. Our new word for Holy Matrimony Between a Man and a Woman is Ielkupeyvtp, well, soon Gays would want Ielkupeyvtp. Equal Rights! "


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Showing 1-25 of 37 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Oct 19, 2012 7:10:38 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 19, 2012 7:54:23 PM PDT
DRM says:
"We Want what you have but we DON'T Want what you have."

We should get the state out of Holy Matrimony anyway. Let Civil Unions and Legal contracts exist. Take away Special Privileges for People who are married by the state.

Only Christian Bible Believing Conservative Churches would have Ielkupeyvtp ceremonies.

Soon the ACLU would say: You CANNOT define things that way. That excludes gays. They have an equal right to Ielkupeyvtp.

"In fact, you can't have exclusively heterosexual feelings and instincts anymore. You MUST go BOTH ways."

No More Freedom of Assembly. No Making Up New Ceremonies that exclude Gays. No Freedom to Choose your associations and your preferences.

So, soon there would be no Black Congress, no Black Association of this and that and everything. No hundreds and hundreds of groups who start out by excluding via having the first part of their name being BLACK.

There would be No Affirmative Action favoring women or minorities, of course.

No gender labels. No race labels. No sexual orientation labels.

No asking what one's race is on Thousands of Government Forms and College Forms.

Soon, there would be Secret Meetings in the Basements of Conservative Christians who Talk In Code and who have Secret Ceremonies for their Holy Matrimony Between a Man and a Woman.

The Underworld would be the world that would be envied. "You can't have your underworld in your basements."

The World at large would be Chaos, Division, and Tribes Clamoring and Aggressively competing for Equal Rights and Equal Victim hood.

A Liberal "Progressive" Atheist Utopia.

Posted on Oct 19, 2012 7:55:52 PM PDT
[Deleted by Amazon on Oct 19, 2012 8:18:35 PM PDT]

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 19, 2012 8:00:14 PM PDT
DRM,

What LGBT want is the civil marriage contract that the state issues. Why is that so hard to understand. Churches don't "issue" them, they don't even register them. Church Clergy has to be registered with the state to be recognized as an officiate for what the state will recognize/register. Again, it really isn't that hard.

As for asking race on the government forms, that is to fulfill some government quote/count/notion. Unfortunately they are so caught up in the requirement that they leave Caucasian off most forms, as well as other races ---- all the white listing nationalities for races and other odd words.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 19, 2012 8:54:47 PM PDT
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In reply to an earlier post on Oct 19, 2012 9:00:12 PM PDT
and,

no,

you are wrong they don't have the marriage that the state can provide and there isn't any other motive. Conspiracies seldom turn out to be true.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 19, 2012 9:07:02 PM PDT
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In reply to an earlier post on Oct 19, 2012 9:10:40 PM PDT
and,

no,

they are using the state "approved" word, not holy matrimony, and asking for the same rights. They also have thousands of years of history that show same sex unions did exist before --- but that isn't what they are asking for, they want the legal benefits that go with the state marriage license. I'm sorry you can't see it, but that doesn't make it untrue. Try not to be so scared, they don't want to be in your church!!!

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 19, 2012 9:11:28 PM PDT
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In reply to an earlier post on Oct 19, 2012 9:13:38 PM PDT
and,

the laws are already written with that word. They aren't asking the state to change any of the laws ----- you are! You have another word already: use it Holy Matrimony! If you want the state approved license then you have the same marriage, if you don't don't register with the state.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 19, 2012 9:15:05 PM PDT
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In reply to an earlier post on Oct 19, 2012 9:18:39 PM PDT
and,

I'm not sure who we is. The state has the word, they put it in the laws and it those privileges that are the focus. If you want another word, you already have one, but if you want what the state is offering then the word marriage will also apply to you. Why are you so hung up on a word that you have arbitrarily attributed to a particular religion.

The laws are complete, they take no additional cost to change or add too, why do you want to add all the legal wrangling for another word when there is a CIVIL contract word that belongs to the STATE already in place. If you want something different, you pick one. Personally, I like the word marriage as a state ordained concept and my marriage is legal that way.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 19, 2012 9:19:21 PM PDT
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In reply to an earlier post on Oct 19, 2012 9:22:40 PM PDT
and,

no, people like you are so terrified that someone else might have the same rights as you that you are making up reasons why anyone you don't approve of might want equal rights!

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 19, 2012 9:26:50 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 19, 2012 9:27:01 PM PDT
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In reply to an earlier post on Oct 19, 2012 9:31:33 PM PDT
and,

no the tax laws and benefits are not equal YET.

And ssm is not legal in every state either. So your last statement with all the slurs in it is inaccurate. Homosexuals can not marry the person they love, and they are not afforded the right to claim inheritance exemptions, social security survivor benefits and many others. Fix those, and many others, and the problem goes away. The SCOTUS will soon declare that rights are being violated and LGBT will indeed have equal rights. You do remember that equal but separate has never been equal.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 19, 2012 9:34:19 PM PDT
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In reply to an earlier post on Oct 19, 2012 9:45:55 PM PDT
and,

It won't be the law very long. But I'm living with it just fine now --- I'm sorry you can't see the inequality, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

As far as I can tell ALL people are "prohibited" from speeding
ALL people are "prohibited" from tax evasion
ALL people are "prohibited" from illegal drug use
only SOME people are "prohibited" from adult marriage

so NO all people do not have equal rights and your examples do not show that they do.

SCOTUS ruling coming to a state you live in. Hope you learn that you are putting way to much emphasis on a word that NEVER belonged to you, before you have to accept their decision. My guess is that after a few months, you won't even notice a change. And if you turn off the television, and news coverage, you'd probably never notice the change as it doesn't directly affect you no matter how much you think you can "own" a legal word.

Posted on Oct 19, 2012 9:50:58 PM PDT
DRM and And,

You do know that there is no need to have the state "sanction" your marriage now, don't you? You simply don't register it with the state: that is don't apply for a state marriage license. Then the law, the state, etc can't even be perceived as "sanctioning" your marriage. FWIW, the state just registering it, not passing on its value, in exchange for the registration the state acknowledged your marriage and gave you some rights and privileges but if you don't want those rights and privileges you have the right to NOT register your relationship.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 19, 2012 10:17:38 PM PDT
FyreFairy says:
I have read the discussion here and I am wondering why you bother trying to explain and enlighten this person. When someone is both a right wing fundamentalist Christian and a homophobe they can't be reasoned with. The person in this discussion can't even use the spell check/ spelling correct feature on the computer. They and people like them will never "get" it. They don't want to get it.
One of the big reasons that my friends in the LGBT community want marriage equality is to be the legal next of kin. They want to be the one to decide end of live issues for their partner if need be. Too many times these decisions are made by a parent who doesn't understand their homosexual son or daughter.
I completely understand and agree with you. The problem with this sort of people is that it is like having a battle of wits with the unarmed. Their hatred makes them unable to see reason.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 19, 2012 10:26:03 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 19, 2012 10:30:14 PM PDT
Chelli,

The Civil Union can provide some of the decision making you talk about, and has in some states. But there is more to it than legal next of kin and that includes survivorship benefits, inheritance and the like.

As for tonight's banter, I normally don't get into it, but it seemed that the forum needed the statement about why the statements were meaningless. It was really written for others. Believe me I do understand that if you are going to talk to a walk it is best to find one with the thermostat on it, that way you get some reasonable reaction!

This was a bait for gays and so far they've failed! My only misunderstanding is how anyone can think that this is a plot to take over all the words in the dictionary!!! But those crib sheets don't have to make sense I guess.

I can tell you that I was recently in a discussion about the problem with seniors wanting to marry and not lose their pensions. Not registering you marriage certificate from the church means the state doesn't recognize the marriage: there is not marriage license. I probably wouldn't have even suggested it had I not been in some of these discussions!

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 22, 2012 5:12:03 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 22, 2012 5:13:44 AM PDT
Brian Curtis says:
"we have the word marriage
you are trying to steal our word and change the definition"

Who's 'we'? Christians? Protestants? Religious people in general?

Because none of those groups own the word anyway. Atheists can and do get married all the time, with zero involvement from any church. Marriage is simply not a religious term in the U.S.; that ship has sailed.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 22, 2012 9:19:52 AM PDT
Brian,

There are some that think "wishing" would make it so. The word is a "legal" term/status -- that is all that the courts could rule on anyway! But you knew that ;-)

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 22, 2012 9:44:15 AM PDT
Astrocat says:
Marriage is from the French, going back in English to the early Middle Ages. So it's a borrowed word, anyway, and was, of course, used to denote a legal contract, usually between great families, to cement a bond and keep the land in the family. Not a very spiritual beginning.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 22, 2012 11:11:44 AM PDT
S. Kessler says:
This is idiotic, even for DRM. Oy.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 22, 2012 11:14:30 AM PDT
It's got a clever "1984" ring to it, I thought. :)
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Discussion in:  Religion forum
Participants:  13
Total posts:  37
Initial post:  Oct 19, 2012
Latest post:  Nov 4, 2012

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