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Atheists Unable to Accept Human Failure?


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Initial post: Dec 18, 2012 8:27:53 PM PST
MMX says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Dec 18, 2012 8:40:22 PM PST
I believe that for every bad, horrible, good or great thing that has ever happened in my life, made something else possible in my life.

So, I can see your argument. Sometimes, some people have a hard time getting past the bad to accept that something good could have come out of it.

I'm a "the glass is half-full" kinda person. I think that makes it easier for to see how good can come from something that was horrible.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 18, 2012 8:42:38 PM PST
illogical and very poor analysis too

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 18, 2012 8:47:07 PM PST
MMX says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Dec 18, 2012 8:48:50 PM PST
So, you think that if the Titanic had not sunk, then when they continued to make ships that large or larger, they would not have sunk? Even though, most of them would have been made the very same way?

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 18, 2012 8:51:47 PM PST
MMX: It's not just that, though. By not accepting the bad, and by not accepting that good can come out of it, they prevent themselves from turning tragedies into good things.
****************
I totally agree. Some people either can't or won't let themselves have something good from bad events. It is a shame, because then all you have is the bad event(s).

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 18, 2012 8:59:53 PM PST
you are falsely claiming that no improvements ever get made without a major disaster

look at your electric toys
smaller faster better cheaper more powerful every year
nobody got killed to make that happen
they didnt all get stuck on spark radio and crystal receivers

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 18, 2012 9:00:16 PM PST
Charles says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Dec 18, 2012 9:02:17 PM PST
No, that is not my argument. My argument is that there can be some very good things that come out of something bad.

You read way too much into what I wrote.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 18, 2012 9:04:33 PM PST
Ariex says:
MMX says: "The best thing we can do is honor the dead children at Sandy Hook by ensuring that such a tragedy never happens again."

Ariex: This seems to be impossible. The Sandy Hook tragedy was not a design flaw, nor is there anything to learn from it. Human instability is a fact of life, but we can't just round up anybody that is acting funny and banish them to a desert island, can we? And as to the gun control issue, well, Elvis has left the building on that one. On the news the reporters are putting two features one after the other. The first is about focusing on love, and the second is the coverage of people making runs on gun stores to stock up on assault rifles in case it becomes harder to get one. We talk the talk, but when it comes to walking the walk, it is every man for himself.

IMO, those who run to purchase the assault rifles only add insult to social injury without regard for the pain of those who have lost loved ones. So what else is new, eh?

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 18, 2012 9:06:17 PM PST
Ariex says:
charles says: "There is another. It didn't matter because it wasn't real. The Creation is an illusion so there is never any harm."

Ariex: I hope you don't own an assault rifle. You are scary, charles.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 18, 2012 9:07:23 PM PST
Ariex says:
Kessa & her Winter Wonderland Ferrets says: "You read way too much into what I wrote."

Ariex: Both horse and MMX are very skilled at that.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 18, 2012 9:09:38 PM PST
Or we can decide to put Mental Health as just as important in our health care system.

Insurances don't pay very much for it, so if you are poor, you are much more limited in the care that you can receive.

And yes, there can be something good that comes from the Sandy Hook tragedy, it just depends on how many people want to make a difference & how many people just don't care.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 18, 2012 10:54:28 PM PST
B.NASH says:
To me, an Atheist's unwillingness to accept the Titanic argument shows lack of maturity. Rather than accept that imperfect human beings inevitably make decisions that kill others, that any one of us could unwittingly die due to a bad design, and that these deaths are necessary to improving BOTH our technological and political products - these Atheists choose to bash anyone like me who has accepted these things.

bnash- There was no design flaw in the Titanic. The mistake made was trying to navigate the ship through a massive icefield, eventually hitting a massive iceberg. There were two other identical ships to the titanic, The Olympic and Brittanic. One was sank in a ww1 attack and the other never sank. Your Titanic argument holds no water.

Posted on Dec 19, 2012 6:08:47 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 19, 2012 6:10:06 AM PST
Brian Curtis says:
There's no evidence that atheists are unwilling to accept human failures. Indeed, humanists in particular are all too aware of humanity's failings, which is why they focus so much on making the world a better place instead of vainly hoping for a magical paradise that appears after death.

Of course, if your argument is that all disasters, accidents, etc., are inherently good as a 'learning experience,' you're welcome to explain that perspective to the families of those affected, whether atheist or theist. I'm sure they'll appreciate your sociopathy.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 19, 2012 7:49:34 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 19, 2012 7:51:18 AM PST
RE: The best thing we can do is honor the dead children at Sandy Hook by ensuring that such a tragedy never happens again. But, by doing this, we'll be equating them to the people who perished on the Titanic.

That's true that we should try to ensure that there's no repeat of Sandy Hook, but you were saying that this was analogous with the sinking of the Titanic. That was your primary example to illustrate how something good can come out of a tragedy.

In fact, in your opening statement, you precisely asked, "Why was it *good* that the Titanic ssnk?"

So what you really seem to be asking here is "Why was it good that the tragedy occurred at Sandy Hook?" It isn't much of a reach to come to that conclusion.

Now, that seems so extreme that I suspect you may say that I'm twisting things or putting words in your mouth that you did not say, or something like that. I mean, it would be easy for you to say something like "How could you possibly think that I believe the events at Sandy Hook were a good thing?" And you'd have a point, because at a glance, no one would think that any sane person would have said or intimated such a thing.

Unless they went back and read your post carefully. Either you did mean what I'm suggesting, or you made one of the worst analogies I've ever seen in my life and need to completely rework your entire OP. You set up the Titanic and Sandy Hook as parallel, analogous events....and called the sinking of the Titanic a good thing.

At best, your point was extremely convoluted due to the poor analogy you set up. There may have been a point in there, but it got lost in the absurdity of thinking that comparing the Titanic and Sandy Hook was comparing apples with apples.

Back to the drawing board for you.....

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 19, 2012 7:59:49 AM PST
Cliff Sedge says:
There was a song in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang with the line 'from the ashes of disaster grow the roses of success'.

At least they knew that disasters are a bad thing. It's not called the Hindenburg Stroke of Luck or the Titanic Fortune.

What would you have sung?

'There's no such thing
as bad things/
All the things that pass are great/
Just great!
Hooray!'

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 19, 2012 8:20:55 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 19, 2012 8:23:01 AM PST
Bubba says:
For whatever reason, ships sink; the sinking of the Titanic was a huge tragedy mainly due to the lack of effective safety laws at the time. There were were several areas for improvement identified by the Titanic disaster that vastly improved the safety of later ships; one major area that was improved was in the area of life boats, both in the number and in the procedures. The Titanic sank in 1912, the first International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea (the SOLAS Convention) was adopted in 1914. The current SOLAS Convention was adopted in 1974.

Posted on Dec 19, 2012 8:51:06 AM PST
Jenn D. says:
MMX,

There is a difference between an event being good for humanity, and doing good after tragedy.

The sinking of the Titanic was a tragedy, it was a bad event. Out of that catastrophe humans were able to make changes so that the calamity would never be repeated. This does not make the sinking of the Titanic good, it only means that we as a society can learn from the mistakes we have made and usually takes steps not to repeat them. The same goes for the Sandy Hook tragedy. This event was a bad thing even though we as a society can use the reminder of this heartache to improve our mental health system.

Posted on Dec 19, 2012 9:05:43 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 19, 2012 9:07:12 AM PST
Jenn D. says:
Although I am not an Atheist I find the subject line question misguided. Nothing in the posts here demonstrate an Atheist unwillingness to accept human failure. I think if you were to ask Atheists if humans are imperfect they would say yes. If you were to ask if humans make mistakes that kill others they would say yes. If you were to ask if humanity can learn from the mistakes that humans make they would say yes. I also think an Atheist, or anyone's, unwillingness to accept an argument that essentially states that there is no such thing as tragedy is sound by logic and reason.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 20, 2012 1:04:15 PM PST
MMX says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Dec 20, 2012 1:05:35 PM PST
MMX says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Dec 20, 2012 1:06:55 PM PST
MMX says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Dec 20, 2012 1:08:29 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 20, 2012 1:52:54 PM PST
MMX says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Dec 20, 2012 1:09:26 PM PST
MMX says:
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Discussion in:  Religion forum
Participants:  40
Total posts:  380
Initial post:  Dec 18, 2012
Latest post:  Jan 25, 2013

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