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Reading *Redcrowdog* - How?


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Initial post: Dec 1, 2011 10:49:52 PM PST
How?

Yes - how? That's the question I always bear in mind when reading his posts in these forums. To me, there is always this first barrier of reading which represents a challenge that makes RCD's posts such gems of mystified beauties to be appreciated.

Maybe we'll all have to pretend ourselves to be literary critics here.

Shall we start this discussion by exploring the concept of "intertextuality" as Julia Kristeva puts it, and, the way in which Roland Barthes understood it?

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 2, 2011 12:40:29 AM PST
[Deleted by Amazon on Nov 22, 2012 7:02:51 AM PST]

Posted on Dec 2, 2011 1:21:32 AM PST
Julia Kristeva?? Is somebody kidding?

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 2, 2011 2:03:15 AM PST
[Deleted by Amazon on Nov 22, 2012 7:02:52 AM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 2, 2011 3:01:21 AM PST
Quite. Pairu-sensei. > ... the ecstato-poetic mode ... < I like this description very much.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 2, 2011 3:06:36 AM PST
ER Walker,

> ... kidding? <

Well, you may take it as that - though I would prefer to put it as more of a *quipping* ... I hope.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 2, 2011 4:06:07 AM PST
Pairu-sensei,

> ... fantasies of high living in a capitalist paradise made free for the fulfillment of libido-driven intellectuals? <

The phrase "intellectual onanism" came to mind and I thought I had made up something quite original until ... I googled for it, and, of course, it's already been there for quite some time!! That, and something I'd like to explore in this thread as it develops, brought up a recollection of what Umberto Eco said in an essay on *Borges and My Anxiety of Influence* in the book On Literature - something about *intertextuality* - suggesting that there is an unfathomable immensity of ideas accumulated (and now seemingly and quietly sedimented) in the universe of books sitting on ours and those of the shelves of many libraries, that "murmur" to each other ...

I guess for RCD's ecstato-poetic mode of writing, in order to have a better grasp on those objets d'art and metaphysical objects he's been alluding to (a Golconda of precious, highly valuable thingies), we'll have to go beyond the network of "hypertextuality" ... perhaps, "supertextuality"?

BTW, is that book (by Philippe Sollers) good?

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 2, 2011 4:59:59 AM PST
Bubba says:
From the color pictures I see of her, she follows the "more and brighter is better" school of makeup application.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 2, 2011 4:27:37 PM PST
[Deleted by Amazon on Nov 22, 2012 7:02:53 AM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 2, 2011 4:48:56 PM PST
[Deleted by Amazon on Nov 22, 2012 7:02:54 AM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 2, 2011 6:20:39 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 2, 2011 6:23:55 PM PST
Bubba says:
It could be that she only has one tube of lipstick and she only wears it for portraits. As she is Bulgarian; that lipstick may have been made in the same Russian factory, using the same pigment, that made the red ink used to print the hammer and sickle on Russian May Day posters. The color name of her lipstick is "May Day Red".

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 2, 2011 7:17:13 PM PST
Island Girl says:
Hi Bubba,

You're cracking me up! A bold lip, yes, but she is clearly unfamiliar with the Tammy Faye (RIP) method of mascara application.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 2, 2011 10:40:38 PM PST
Bubba says:
Her makeup is totally different from what Tammy Faye's was. I am not sure that Julia Kristeva is wearing mascara, I can't get past her really heavy bright red lipstick.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 3, 2011 12:40:00 AM PST
Pairu-sensei,

Wow ... fantastic (and interesting) theory.

Just happened that I read the latest reply from rcd in the thread *William Blake* and there's a very interesting word he used - the word "thetan" - in a sentence that I am now quoting from his, as follows: " Our world is awash in Magical forces, invisible hands, clenched fists, broken bones and the thetan infested spawn of Aleister Crowly."

That sounds like alluding to the fantasy that the "thetan" is the "ding-an-sich" of the individuality of that clod of mud we call the "mortal coil" of our own (to be shuffled off - putatively in the words of Shakespeare).

But let's come back to your theory. I think we should explore further deeply into it, and, more - round about it.

Posted on Dec 3, 2011 1:03:57 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 3, 2011 1:04:38 AM PST
You can read more about Julia Kristeva in Sokal and Bricmont, "Fashionable Nonsense"; she is completely full of it. (As is popular in some circles.)

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 3, 2011 1:16:11 AM PST
Pairu-sensei,

Speaking of Warhol (Andy Warhol I suppose), I really want to learn specifically *what you think* are the dominant theories of art that prevail in the 1950s to 1980s that might have exerted influence on American Pop artists such as Andy Warhol and Roy Lichtenstein?

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 3, 2011 1:55:13 AM PST
Bubba,

If Julia Kristeva, Tammy Faye and Olive Oyl (as in the highly exaggerated heavy-makeup she's been portrayed in some of the cartoon scenes to make an appeal to Popeye) were to be put in the right place within the gamut of piano notes, in which note would you have each of them slotted?

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 3, 2011 2:00:33 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 3, 2011 2:04:13 AM PST
You left out Betty Boop....

Let's say Olive Oyl gets A-flat, Julia Kristeva gets an F, and maybe some nice round whole notes for the others.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 3, 2011 2:08:46 AM PST
ER Walker,

Oh yeah ... of course. I was kind of trying to conjure up the (unsaid) association with another famous character in the Muppet Show!

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 3, 2011 2:18:41 AM PST
ER Walker,

This is an interesting lead. Well worth giving time to delve into it. Thanks.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 3, 2011 4:02:55 AM PST
[Deleted by Amazon on Nov 22, 2012 7:02:56 AM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 3, 2011 6:24:24 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 3, 2011 6:27:28 AM PST
Spear: > ... the ecstato-poetic mode ... < I like this description very much.

Yes, Spear, I do believe you would. Greetings, file mou.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 3, 2011 4:26:50 PM PST
The primary thing to keep in mind with rcd is that - to quote from his panopticon of dog-eared mentors -

he'z been "savaged by angels from hell "

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 9, 2011 4:01:55 AM PST
Pairu-sensei,

Wow! This is wonderful! I got a great boost of intellectual corroborant from what you've posted here. Thanks and I have literally pored over every word and *ruminated* the ideas in it over the last couple of days.

I've been rereading On Literature and the chapter: Intertextual Irony and Levels of Reading. Eco detailed there a distinguishment between *certain characterisitics of postmodern narrative*, namely, that of metanarrative, dialogism, double coding, and intertextual irony, understood as four aspects of the postmodern textual strategy.

On discussing "double coding" he says ...

++++++QUOTE++++++

Let us now come to so-called double coding. The man who coined the expression was Charles Jencks, for whom postmodern architecture

... speaks on at least two levels at once: to other architects and a concerned minority who care about specifically architectural meanings, and to the public at large, or the local inhabitants, who care about other issues concerned with comfort, traditional building and a way of life. The postmodern building or work of art addresses simultaneously a minority, elite public, using "high" codes, and a mass public using popular codes ...

This idea can be understood in many ways. In architecture we all know examples of so-called postmodernism, which abound in quotations from the Renaissance or baroque, or some other epoch, blending "high" cultural models into an ensemble that nevertheless turns out to be pleasing and imaginative also for the popular user - often to the detriment of functionality and while reinstating the value of decoration and ornamentation. For instance, there are countless allusions to and components of extreme avant-gardism present in the Guggenheim Museum in Bilbao, which nevertheless also attracts visitors who have no knowledge of architectural history but who nonetheless say (as the statistics also show) they "like it." In any case, this element was also present in the music of the Beatles, which was also - and not accidentally - arranged in Purcell's style (in an unforgettable disk by Cathy Berberian) precisely because these melodies, so tuneful and pleasant, used cultured phrasing and echoes of other times, which are noticeable to the educated ear.

Examples of double coding can be found today in many advertisements, which are constructed like experimental texts that at one stage would have been understandable to only small groups of cineastes, and which nevertheless attract all types of spectators because of their various "popular" motifs, such as the allusion to erotic situations, the appeal of a wll-known face, the rhythm of the editing, the musical accompaniment.

Many works of literature, because of their rediscovery of typical novel plots, have been appreciated even by the wider public, which ought to have been put off by avant-garde stylistic elements, such as the use of interior monologue, metanarrative play, the plurality of voices that are nested inside each other in the course of the narration, the unhinging of temporal sequences, leaps in stylistic register, intermingling of third- and firstperson narration, and free indirect speech.

[ ... ]

++++++UNQUOTE+++++++

Well, perhaps when people actually stand and gaze at a picture by Gilbert and George or somebody, with a thoughtful look on their faces, as if there is something to look at, they MIGHT have actually SEEN something, even though, as you've said, their reactions can be fake-provoked.

But what I found really interesting is that when I read about > Imagine a work of art at the center of a circle. Around that work, radiating out in all directions, are the responses it invokes. Now imagine that the work is removed, but the reactions remain, a kind of donut with a hollow center. That is the art we have today. .. < I had the feeling as if when Eco wrote that article (in that chapter I mentioned above, which, I believe, should have already been written by him before 2002), he had read something like what you said about the art we have today ... a kind of donut with a hollow centre. But this, I'm sure, is just one of those weird vagaries I'm used to conjure up in my inspired mind, at the spur of that moment. You see, because when you say "intellectual onanism" is what you DO, now you are assured that you are not alone in that.

Do you see any hint of Jean-Francois Lyotard's influence on Andy Warhol's and Roy Lichtenstein's works? You know, the film "Z" (with Yves Montand), May 1968, the hippies culture in those years and that social movements in those times being the common background and Zeitgeist that they share?

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 9, 2011 4:12:29 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 9, 2011 4:13:16 AM PST
Hi Phil,

I discovered a Sicilian wine branded "Lacrima" a couple of months ago at a wine traders' exhibition event, have you tasted it before? It's not expensive but it's great!
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Discussion in:  Religion forum
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Initial post:  Dec 1, 2011
Latest post:  Jun 16, 2014

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