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Customer Discussions > Romance forum

Heroes that grovel correctly *Possible Spoilers*


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In reply to an earlier post on Oct 15, 2010 8:54:13 PM PDT
boogenhagen says:
In a Question of Pride I would direct everyone's attention to page 182 in the regular paperback. The passage is "Dianne Stone (the model dated) was nothing," Max dismissed roughly. " I was a fool on the run, and I used her, quite ruthlessly, to try to put a check on my growing feelings for you. To be frank, they terrified me. the last thing I wanted was to tie myself down. You were quite right when you said that to me. But I never touched her--haven't touched any other woman with any intimacy since you. I don't even want them--which was a shock to my system, I admit."

Max never slept with the model or any one else, I would also point out that Max has never outright lied to Clea at all. He did not mention the date, but did admit to it when confronted. Also, since he and Clea weren't even dating for most of the book as Clea had dismissed that portion of the relationship, he was within his rights to have dinners/evenings out with other women.

Max was a businessman and probably had a full schedule for business parties etc. Clea wouldn't accompany him so he either took a female companion or was maybe photographed at a party standing next to a female, that doesn't make him a cheater and for all we know he went out alone. He is an attractive guy and ladies probably wanted to talk to him. There is no indication he took anybody up on anything and he says he did not. I am inclined to believe him.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 15, 2010 10:34:37 PM PDT
Reader in NJ says:
Boogenhagen, Like you I don't believe that Max cheated. Sometimes it amazes me how readers add things to books that just aren't there. I guess they can always choose not to believe what they read -- but then, that means that they are changing the story written by the author. There are many books where it is very obvious that the H cheated. In this case, he states that he hasn't touched any other woman -- why shouldn't we believe him?

Posted on Oct 15, 2010 11:30:55 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 16, 2010 7:41:33 PM PDT
Lillian Rose says:
boogenhagen, Reader in NJ, apart from the begining with the model where we agree to disagree re:cheating, I don't believe he cheated he was entitled because they weren't in a relationship, she ended it. I think the h/Clea was going by how long his past relationships lasted as to come up with the figure 4 women, then again I'm not sure, but what I am sure of is that he didn't cheat after they broke up.

Sometimes in a book you know that the H lied to the h re:cheating, example (where is my mind) the book starting with the oral sex, you just know he lied to the h. But in this instance I believe the H. I have a problem with some/one author that writes a HEA and then in another book she has the H cheat, just can't trust her HEA, or an author who writes a HEA and then in another book kills off the H/h, really don't want to read those books, they should come with a warning, especially if they are romance. Off to try and find something to read, a pink sparkly goddess of goodness gave me a couple of good reads, but am in search of more - if anyone has any suggestions, that would be great. I was even tempted to try "Heart of the Matter" I think that's it, shudders, not can't go there just yet, I'll wait till I'm in an angsty mood, really angsty mood.

Posted on Oct 15, 2010 11:33:50 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 15, 2010 11:37:37 PM PDT
Lillian Rose says:
Sorry I know this isn't the right thread to post in. But,

Has anyone read any books similar to: "Tempt Me Tonight", "Daisy's Back in Town", "Seventh Heaven", I love the second chance, with/without baby surprise.

Or a book where the H/h fall in love the OW tells lies re:h, the H ends up married to the OW and discovers what the OW really did, divorces OW and goes after h. I've never read one and would like to. It would have to entail alot of grovelling for the h to accept the H, well it would if I was the h.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 16, 2010 8:37:03 AM PDT
Lillian Rose, I read all three books you mentioned and They are so good, I loved them! They are all in my keeper box.
Me too I would like to read more like that, please anyone??

Posted on Oct 16, 2010 9:09:44 AM PDT
Lillian - I've read and loved all 3 books as well, they are all on my "keeper" shelf. The only ones along those lines I can think of off the top of my head is Separate Beds, by Lavryle Spencer and Not Another Bad Date by Rachel Gibson is kind of in that field. Any suggestions I would be very interested in too.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 16, 2010 10:19:18 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 16, 2010 10:40:06 AM PDT
JennyG. says:
Reader,

here are the spoilers for PERFECT SIN by Kat Martin.

The heroine of Perfect Sin by Kat Martin had just had a miscarriage and fell into a deep depression. The hero tried somewhat to help her out of it but then he just gave up, packed his things and left for London where he resumed his relationship with his former mistress. He definitely had sex with his mistress but I cannot remember whether there was a description of the whole scene.

I stopped reading at that point and have never been able to continue reading that book. I have read and enjoyed some books that featured a cheating hero but this one just gutted me. I heard on various forums that the book features a good grovel but ... He cheated on her when she needed him the most and no amount of grovelling can make it up to me. I don't know if I'll ever be able to finish that book.

Jenny

Posted on Oct 16, 2010 10:35:48 AM PDT
Halo424 says:
I don't remember Max being the one to break it off. I thought it was Clea? But while they were apart, I know he did not cheat. He said it and I believe him too. After all, the writer is the one who gave him those lines and developed his personality. If it is in print, I don't doubt the H at all. Not in print, is another matter. I think when they don't explain it, it could possibly mean that you are supposed to decide or it didn't matter one way or the other because he ended up with the h. I hate that. Because it always matters to me. Whenever they get back together in these books, the H always says I love you from the start, I was fighting my feelings, somebody lied to me and I believed them over you, and I think if they REALLY loved her like they say, they should no be looking for another relationship, sexual or otherwise. That is my only problem with HP's. But I guess if the big misunderstanding or the other relationships weren't there to make us have that angst we so love, we wouldn't be reading them. I actually like the ones where you think they cheat, or where they were tempted, but remained true to the woman that they say they love. I have learned to hate long separation novels for that reason. I have no idea why I am rambling here, but after a week of Michelle Reid, I am in HP overload I think. And feeling very angsty! :}

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 16, 2010 2:59:21 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 16, 2010 3:00:26 PM PDT
Lisa in OK says:
Lillian Rose says:

>I love the second chance, with/without baby surprise.<

The only one that I can think of with this type of plot is "Sweet Wind, Wild Wind" By Elizabeth Lowell. It was reprinted in hardcover in August of this year, but originally came out 1992.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 16, 2010 7:47:20 PM PDT
Lillian Rose says:
Double D, you are right, sorry it was a typo, I have fixed it, thank you. I love your take on books, it's honest and from the heart.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 16, 2010 7:50:31 PM PDT
Lillian Rose says:
Music Box Dancer, I read these books, I think I was recommended, I really should keep better track, but I wasn't expecting what I got. They just came out of left field and left me wanting more.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 16, 2010 8:14:33 PM PDT
Lillian Rose says:
KT, Thank you, thank you, thank you, I haven't read them yet, they are now on top of my TBR bundle, they sound just what I'm after.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 16, 2010 8:28:08 PM PDT
Lillian Rose says:
Lisa F, Thank you, thank you, thank you, I know I have this somewhere, never read it, but I'm sure I have it, it will go to the top. That's three(3) now, three books to read and hopefully add to my keeper shelf.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 16, 2010 8:40:45 PM PDT
Lillian Rose says:
JennyG, I read all the way through to the end, with tears running down my face, I never thought that he could ever redeam himself.

SPOILERS: He does save her life and takes a bullet for her, but I don't know it's worse I think than just cheating because he left after she'd lost her/their baby, when she needed him. I read another book where the so called H cheated on the h after she lost the baby and the auther had the h saying sorry - there was a third party in that book fully on the H side, talking to the h, anyway it was a big WT moment, can't recall the book, but when I do will let you know.

H goes after the h, because he goes back to her father and grovelling - ifffy but he does tell her that he knows what he did was wrong, and he would never do it again. Even with the saving life thing I think I would have truly believed in a HEA if Kat Martin had put in an epilogue about 5/10yrs later and we see them happy, does this happen in book NO. It was/is a very angsty book. There is a descriptive scene witht he H and his mistress. The heart breaker is the scene with the h looking for the H and she finds him with his mistress leaving a resturant together. (admittedly he was going to break with the mistress and go back to the h, but for me it was too little too late - I always hate it how the author writes about how much the H is suffering, who cares - what about the h she's the one suffering and she did no wrong, I have no simpathy for the H) I admit that he did all he could to get her back, I just don't know if I could go there, I'm must be very vendictive.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 16, 2010 9:40:15 PM PDT
Lillian - Let us know what you think of the suggestions. I like to see when I recommend something what others thought. Not to sound ungrateful in any way I always appreciate suggestions... It just shows me in the future if I ask for recs. who has the same likes and dislikes as me.

Posted on Oct 17, 2010 3:45:21 AM PDT
Lillian Rose says:
KT, will do I have just finished "Still In My Heart" Historical by Kathryn Smiith - cheating book.

Spoilers:

He was a drunk and the day he got betrothed he was drunk went to bed the h's sister snuck into his bed and thinking it was the h slept with her, the h walks in and see's them, breaks the engagement. The books starts 10 years later, he has been sober for 2 years, he is still in love with the h, but she of course has been celibate not waiting for him but not doing anything, I think she is 32 which is really old for an unmarried woman anyway her father invites him to a house party. The sister that slept with him tries to make trouble and does but all ends up HEA. I'm off to read one of your books now, not sure which one, but will definatley let you know.

Posted on Oct 17, 2010 3:45:55 AM PDT
Lillian Rose says:
KT, will do I have just finished "Still In My Heart" Historical by Kathryn Smiith - cheating book.

Spoilers:

He was a drunk and the day he got betrothed he was drunk went to bed the h's sister snuck into his bed and thinking it was the h slept with her, the h walks in and see's them, breaks the engagement. The books starts 10 years later, he has been sober for 2 years, he is still in love with the h, but she of course has been celibate not waiting for him but not doing anything, I think she is 32 which is really old for an unmarried woman anyway her father invites him to a house party. The sister that slept with him tries to make trouble and does but all ends up HEA. I'm off to read one of your books now, not sure which one, but will definatley let you know.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 17, 2010 4:27:27 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 17, 2010 4:30:22 AM PDT
JennyG. says:
Lillian Rose,

Thank you for the spoilers regarding PERFECT SIN by Kat Martin. I love and prefer angsty books but this one was too much for me. I may finish it some day but whether I do or don't his grovelling and taking a bullet for her still would not make it up to me. Going back to the former mistress when the heroine needed him the most was cowardly and it showed me that he didn't love her which makes me believe that he'll never be able to love her the way she deserves. I don't believe him when he says he wouldn't do it again.

As I've already said, I read and enjoyed som books featuring a cheating hero but I could always feel his love for the heroine despite him cheating.

Thank you again.

Jenny

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 17, 2010 6:32:16 AM PDT
Melissa C. says:
Hi JennyG, Re: Perfect Sin, I enjoyed this book very much and is a keeper for me for two reasons. First, the h was not one of those characters who was tstl. She was strong and stood up for herself after discovering the H and mistress. Second, he did realize he was wrong even before he was found by the h with the OW; And went to great lenghts to get the h back.
Give it another go some time.

Posted on Oct 17, 2010 9:18:37 AM PDT
Lillian - Still in My Heart is actually on my keeper shelf. I've only read it once, and I bought it because I was interested in the alcoholic hero angle, not necessarily the cheater. It was very good. Addicted by Charlotte Featherstone is along those lines. The hero is addicted to opium. It is also on my keeper shelf. If you liked Still In My Heart it's definitely worth checking out. In my opinion Addicted was better.

In regards to Perfect Sin. I read it a while ago but I just can't say I liked it. Yes I agree the heroine was strong, and yes the hero realized he was wrong and did grovel a lot. But his actions to me were just beyond redeemable. There wasn't enough groveling on the planet to make up for what he did to her. He left and cheated on his wife for weeks (months possibly???) after she lost their baby. Lorraina Bobbit popped in my head after reading that book. I had to trade it in at the used book store.

Posted on Oct 17, 2010 11:21:24 AM PDT
Having attended romance book author/writer meetings, reading comments via the internet, I heard: the reader wants to know who the Hero is, and that he loves the heroine, through description, dialogue, actions. Readers react strongly when the Hero cheats on the Heroine, no matter what kind of cheating it is. There seems to be an invisible "fencing" for the interactions of the Hero & Heroine. Any outside mistresses, old boyfriends, old girlfriends, former love interests, seductive relatives, etc., seem to be "tresspassers" who may be allowed to taunt, temp the Hero & Heroine, but the readers want the "tresspassers" & "interlopers" to be gone.
The Hero's groveling could be described and displayed so many ways, alot of little ways can be more interesting in character development and story, plot, than one big ground thumping grovel by the Hero.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 17, 2010 12:25:24 PM PDT
JennyG. says:
Melissa C,

Maybe some day.

Jenny

Posted on Oct 17, 2010 1:05:31 PM PDT
Reader says:
Kathy-

IMO, groveling accurately describes the amends that readers need to see in order to accept a HEA. For me, one big grovel sceen leaves a bitter taste in my mouth simply because most books span over a long period of time where there has been repeadeted hurtful actions, one sorry, however heartfelt is not enough. It doesn't have to be the hero, but mostly that is how the stories are written. NOTHING ruins a story more for me than the H constantly hurting the h only to then have a flash of realization of how deeply he truly loves her and followed by an apology and a declaration of love and then all is well. When this happens, as a reader I feel cheated. Make me believe he is sorry! I want to actually hear the characters say it and then work towards them actually building a trust back. I need to see change in characters in order to believe the reality of that change. As commented on this blog, I think sometimes readers are more upset by betrayals than the characters betrayed. Obviously, you need conflict or you can't have a story and a third person tempting isn't necessarily off limits but, I think readers struggle with conclusions that do not include any amends. (deep breath, rant over) :)

Thanks for the spoilers my fellow blogers, one more questions on Perfect Sin, so he kept this mistress all along? So, he was constatly cheating on her even during her pregnancy?

Posted on Oct 17, 2010 3:02:00 PM PDT
Melissa C. says:
No, he had broken off with the mistress, ie stopped seeing her. But she had been a part of his life for a long time and were friends as well. So th OW had been there for him whenever he needed her. He decided that since he and the h couldn't console each other over there loss, The h was in a deep depression, he would get consoling from his friend/mistress. Shalow I know, but hey he's a guy.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 17, 2010 3:06:00 PM PDT
Reader in NJ says:
Melissa, I read "Perfect Sin" a long time ago so don't remember all of the details. But didn't the H leave for London and his former mistress right after or shortly after the funeral? That wasn't enough time for the h to get past her depression. He didn't give them (himself and the h) an opportunity to console each other. Instead, he just left.

Also, he hurt the OW by his actions. When he came back to her she assumed that he was leaving his wife for good -- that his wife did something awful or something like that. She didn't seem to be a bad person.
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