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"The List" that was spawned by the popular Don't Shoot Me Thread

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Posted on Feb 20, 2011 10:38:54 PM PST
RomReader says:
Vanessa- 2 more:

Irresistible by Karen Robards -- historical--married h cheats with H
His wedding night-heir by Sara Craven --contemp--H cheats with other women during the year he & h were estranged

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 21, 2011 10:52:02 AM PST
Vanessa says:
His Wedding Night-Heir is that the one where the ow turned out to be his sister or something?

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 21, 2011 11:43:04 AM PST
Reader in NJ says:
Vanessa, I believe you are right -- the OW, the reason why the h left the H right after they were married was his half-sister. However, he did cheat with a few others during the year or so that the h and H were apart.

I have issues with these type of stories because I don't understand why in this case the H (in some other books it is the h) keep a secret like that from their spouse. While it may not be something that they want broadcasted to everyone, shouldn't the person you are marrying know about your siblings? If you can't trust the person you are marrying to keep quiet about something like that, you shouldn't be marrying them in the first place. This wasn't a MOC -- supposedly they cared for each other.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 21, 2011 12:13:32 PM PST
Vanessa says:
If I'm thinking of the right book - he didn't feel it was his secret to tell. Something about his mom not wanting everyone to know. She cared more about her pride than the happiness of her son it would seem. He cared about his mother though, so he didn't even tell the woman that he loved. I think he was just using the ow to drown his sorrows.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 21, 2011 12:24:34 PM PST
Reader in NJ says:
Vanessa, You're right -- about his mother. However, in my opinion, those type of secrets should not be kept from the person you are marrying -- especially in this case, it was a love match. You expect the other person to trust you -- how can they if you keep lying to them? The h was immature by running away -- she should have confronted him instead. But he also should have realized that he couldn't keep sneaking out to see his sister without the h wondering what was going on.

And while, yes, the OWmen didn't mean anything to him, the whole thing could have been avoided in the first place if he had been truthful to begin with.

I understood his not wanting to upset his mother. But, once he decided to get married his outlook needed to change. How would he have felt if the h had a half-brother that she was sneaking off to visit? That old saying about "walking in someone's shoes" is really good advice. He should have put himself in the h's shoes and thought about how he would feel if the facts were reversed -- what he would have expected from her, etc...

Posted on Feb 21, 2011 1:16:20 PM PST
Sandy Wilson says:
Could someone please tell me what MOC means and could you please put in parenthesis some of these abbreviations you use. Some of us are not as well informed on the new abbreviations used. Thank you.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 21, 2011 3:10:56 PM PST
Vanessa says:
LOL! But then there wouldn't be a story. I think there was a book a bit back that was discussed on the threads about the H thinking the h was having a fling and the OM (other man) turned out to be her half brother or something.
And for some reason I am thinking it is a Julia James book called Bought for the Greek's Bed.

MOC is marriage of convenience

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 21, 2011 4:03:18 PM PST
Reader in NJ says:
Vanessa you are right -- those are plot devices -- otherwise no story. That one is used quite a bit. I can't remember the titles but there is at least another fairly recent book that had a half-sister who the h thought was the OW. And there were at least a couple with half-brothers. I don't mind them so much if these are misunderstandings prior to marriage. But once they decide to marry (and not for business reasons, blackmail, etc...) I expect them to communicate. But if they all did, as you said, there would be no story. In SC's book, the end result was an estrangement and a cheating H.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 21, 2011 5:49:01 PM PST
boogenhagen says:
Vanessa --Bought for the Greek's Bed is the one, he throws her out because there are pictures of her with her half brother and he thinks she is cheating in a moc. A. She should have just said it's my brother idiot, and B. this was a moc, he had other lovers, why couldn't she. Terrible book IMO.

A better book with this theme is the Purchased Wife by Michelle Reid, the h has a brother and she gets into a car wreck with him driving, the H thinks she was trying to commit suicide and is having an affair and the H has a half brother and the mother is the woman the h thinks he is having an affair with but it was his dad.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 21, 2011 6:30:26 PM PST
Vanessa says:
Kind of reminds you of that quote from a famous writer - oh what a tangled web we weave . . . . .

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 21, 2011 7:12:30 PM PST
boogenhagen says:
It sound confusing but basically everybody who was supposedly the OW/OM was a relative. Which was kinda funny actually. The H and h were miserable for over a year and it was only family (with suitable drama)

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 21, 2011 8:46:57 PM PST
Reader in NJ says:
Boogenhagen, I agree with you that "The Purchased Wife" is a better book. It had misunderstandings, angst, etc.. but no cheating. Just goes to show that a good author can write a good emotional books without resorting to cheating on the part of the h or H.

As for JJ her books are hit or miss for me -- with nothing in between. LOL That one, was defintiely a "miss."

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 21, 2011 11:49:25 PM PST
Lillian Rose says:
Reader in NJ, what gets me is that he should of trusted his wife with the facts but he didn't and she ran, okay she should have confronted him. But he had a secret that involved her, his sister/ow lived on the estate, it's not as if they wouldnt run into each other. If it's something that she's confronted with then he should of told her, it was his mother he was protecting, but his wife he hurt by not confiding in her, yet he is the one who has the affairs. I wonder if he would have forgiven her if she had had affairs whilst she was away, and he the one who was celibate?

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 21, 2011 11:55:05 PM PST
Lillian Rose says:
I hate the way they say that the other women don't mean anything to them, because I'm sure the other women mean something to the heroine. These men aren't stupid they know the h's will be hurt by this and no amount of they didn't mean anything to me works to heal the wounds. If he had been honest and open with the h she wouldn't of suffered in the first place, by keeping secrets from his wife the one he is supposed to love, she's the only one to suffer, again.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 22, 2011 7:23:23 AM PST
Reader in NJ says:
Lillian Rose, I agree with you. But, as Vanessa said, without all of that there would be no story. Though I personally would have preferred it if he hadn't slept with anyone during the year they were apart. A year is not that long of a period. He could have gone out to dinners, had "eye candy" on his arm at social affairs, but he didn't have to sleep with anyone. In this book that bothered me more than in others because had he been truthful, the h would not have left him. All he had to do was look in a mirror to find the reason for why she left.

Posted on Feb 22, 2011 10:58:46 PM PST
Lillian Rose says:
I totally agree, and I know without the misunderstanding there would be no book, but it would be nice for once that the H takes the blame and remains celebate, and understands that whatever the h is suffering has come about by his not sharing/trusting his wife. I just get so sick of the h having everything dumped on her all the time. I think I need to go to the HP that I like thread and select a good read. I think I'm suffering from a bit of ennui, I'd go to read a book and only read the begining and then go straight to the ending, it's not good. I think I need to pull out my keeper books and read a few.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 23, 2011 12:47:53 PM PST
Double D says:
Lillian Rose, that is what I have been doing. Re-reading old favorites because I am so sick of the cheating while apart on the H's side only. And then if he does cheat he says they meant nothing or that he was always thinking of her, etc. Then he has the nerve to be relieved when he finds out she was chaste while apart. I am just so over those story lines. And it is so predominant too. Obviously I am a minority in the way I feel. I am having a hard time finding any good books to read lately too. The latest bunch of HP's have been disappointing, and boring, to say the least. Same old story, different day.

Posted on Feb 25, 2011 5:37:44 AM PST
Lillian Rose says:
Double D, I know wouldn't it be nice if the boot were on the other foot and the h said the the H, yes there were OM, but it doesn't matter because I was thinking about you the whole time, or I'm sorry I just slipped and fell on the OM? I wonder how they would take it? I know that men have very little feelings when they sleep with someone, but what gets me is that they do know how it will affect the h, and if they have any feelings at all they would do anything to not hurt the one they love, so I think it's just a crock of an excuse.

I read one story where the H says yes there were OW but I thought the marriage was over, you didn't trust me and when there is no trust there is no marriage. But if he would have been open and honest with the heroine then she would have trusted him, but he didn't trust her to be open and honest, yet he's the one with the OW, and she just has to suck it up.

Sometime the words are so pat, the books get muddled, but I'm sorry but it seems we get alot lazy excuses repeticiious scenarios, with no redemption in sight. Another diatribe again today, sorry everyone. Need a happy book, now.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 25, 2011 9:26:01 AM PST
booknuts says:
just had to step in and talk about this. i usually lurk on the various sites, but this is too good to resist. i was watching THE VIEW just now, and a guest was sidney biddle barrows, the mayflower madam back in the '80's who ran a very high-class/costly escort service for very wealthy/prominent men back east, and though she was fined and is no longer in the business, she was remarking that men cheat and stray INSTEAD of leaving their wives, because they love their wives and children and don't want to leave the marriage, but just need and HAVE to have that something extra. the ladies of the viw then wenton to discuss if prostitution should be legalized for the good of the working girls, most of whom are not in a classy (!!!!) situation like the escorts of the mayflower madam were. all in all, very interesting. what do you all think?????

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 25, 2011 9:49:57 AM PST
boogenhagen says:
I think that Ms. Barrow's opinion is very stereotyped and sexist. There are men who cheat and men who don't and I don't think the majority of men who cheat are so desperate they just have to have another woman but really love their wives. I think cheating stems from a variety of reasons and most of them have very little to do with who they are married to but a lot to do with how the cheating spouse sees themselves and their marriage and their place in it. I also think many people are too lazy to clean up the mess their marriage is in and take the easy way out of getting someone new until that relationship is messed up too, kinda like serial monogamy.

As for more h's sleeping with other people, well I do think it is harder for men to accept that their partner slept with someone else than it is for women. Mostly it is societal conditioning, at least for my generation, but statistically marriages where the woman cheats are more likely to end in divorce. My theory is a cheating wife is really hard on the guy's ego. Men tend to take cheating as an attack on their manhood way more than women see men cheating as an attack on their womanhood IMO . Yes, I know ladies feel hurt, rejected etc but it seems to me that women are better at realizing that they weren't the cause of the cheating, that was a decision the man took on his own. Men tend to feel that the wife cheating is a direct result of their failure as a male and most aren't able to get over it. That is just my ideas though.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 25, 2011 10:00:29 AM PST
Lillian Rose says:
booknuts, It still gets me how someone can say they love someone but then turn around and cheat, knowing how it's hurting the one they love. To me when you love someone, you don't hurt them, you would do anything you could not to hurt them. I'd just like those that say that they really love their h/H then turn around and cheat and think nothing of it, to be confronted by turnabout, where they are informed that the one they love has cheated on them, so that they know devastating it feels like. By saying that they cheat instead of leaving their wives is just a cop out, an excuse to excuse their behaviour, so that they don't feel as guilty. Given the choice I would say that the majority would kick the H to the curb, if they were given a choice I'm going to cheat of leave you, the majority would pack their bags for them.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 25, 2011 10:38:53 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 25, 2011 10:40:19 AM PST
Books&Wine says:
I believe Ms Biddle Barrows explanation was rather self serving. An excuse for what she did, the business she ran. It's analagous to saying that of course politicians, professional athletes and actors cheat because the opportunity is sooo available, and no one should think less of those men. Somehow I don't believe their wives see it that way!
Like Boggenhagen, I think that men of my and older generations see infideltiy of their wives as an affront to their manhood. Woman were raised to know that men have "baser instincts." I can remember my mother repeating an old saying: "Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?" So if a woman strayed outside of marriage, it was a double sin: she had sexual wants (!) he wasn't meeting and she was giving away HIS milk. LOL I think the concept of women having friends with benefits is a major sea change from even a couple of decades ago.
On a more serious note, I read somewhere that when a woman has an affair, it's a sign that there is a major problem in the relationship. Just speaking for myself and women I know, there has to be some type of emotional connection with the sex. Especially sex that could potentially end a marriage.
I think, also, that women may be forgiving of infidelity becuase they are more inclined to look at the whole picture and how the breakup of a marriage would affect their children.

(Looking over my comments, I guess I'm dating myself.)

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 25, 2011 11:08:47 AM PST
Vanessa says:
This makes me think of the book up for discussion on Tuesday - After the Fall.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 25, 2011 2:33:22 PM PST
Chele says:
booknuts-thanks for mentioning 'The View'. I normally don't watch this program. I was checking my e-mail at about 8 am this morning and read your comment on 'The List' thread. Since the program comes on at 9 here in Hawaii, I was able to catch it from the beginning of the show. I found the whole show interesting. I may have to check out Whoopi and the gang again soon :)

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 25, 2011 7:48:43 PM PST
boogenhagen says:
Books&Wine: You and I are both dating ourselves. Most men of our generation absolutely can't handle a wife's infidelity and I have a friend or two who actually had an affair to justify the divorce. They basically weren't happy but couldn't see any other way out of the marriage because their husbands at the time were just fine and couldn't see why the ladies were miserable and just 'cause your not having a happy day every day is no reason to dump 15 or 20 years of marriage especially in a community property no fault divorce state.
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Discussion in:  Romance forum
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Initial post:  Sep 21, 2010
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