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Anti-gravity Out of Magnetics?

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In reply to an earlier post on Jul 23, 2009 10:53:44 AM PDT
M. Helsdon says:

Er, do you prefer 'Meaty' or 'Ogre'?

"If the researchers had dug a little deeper, they'd have found that those dissenting poltergeists don't believe in ghosts or an afterlife, either. Skewed results, poorly designed experiment."

Unfortunately, with the available experimental apparatus, communication consists solely of a binary gate, and it has proven impossible to derive a more complex code sequence.


Back on topic, some sources suggest that some ultra-transuranic elements might have curious properties, and there are some weird claims including antigravity for 'Ununpentium' (atomic number 115) [once known as Eka-bismuth] which aren't borne out by actual results.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 23, 2009 11:04:44 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jul 23, 2009 11:05:51 AM PDT
M. Ogre says:
Martin, I respond to 'Meaty', 'Ogre', 'MO', 'Hey You', and ALWAYS: 'Dinner's Ready'.

Regarding your Back On Topic statement: I'm wondering if this thread can get any weirder. Ununpentium? Who THINKS of these things??? I've been reading a couple of books that are like "Quantum Physics for Dummies", and I wonder if the strange properties of quantum physics come into play when you mess with these exotically unstable materials.

Edit: But Meaty or MO is fine.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 23, 2009 11:16:01 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jul 23, 2009 11:17:17 AM PDT
M. Helsdon says:

"Who THINKS of these things???"

Ununpentium is the temporary systematic element name assigned by the International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry; it hasn't been bestowed with a proper name yet, but then only thirty or forty atoms of it have been produced thus far.

Uup lies within a theoretical island of stability, one isotope is supposedly fairly stable, but I don't know what its half-life is.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 23, 2009 11:20:04 AM PDT
M. Ogre says:
And you say you "don't represent the scientific community". Fooled me. You may not be employed as such, dunno, but you sure are well informed and have a depth of understanding to interpret what you know. Least, from what I've seen.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 23, 2009 1:01:26 PM PDT
Ronald Craig says:
"these exotically unstable materials"

That's really not a very nice way to refer to Lorian, now is it?

What we really need is to create ... cavorite! :D

Posted on Jul 23, 2009 1:58:11 PM PDT
M. Helsdon says:

I thought you were working on the Kancho probe for LGM?

"What we really need is to create ... cavorite!"

Alas, the Grand Lunar prevented Dr. Cavor from transmitting the formula back to Earth. Too bad the Apollo landings failed in their true mission to find the Selenite city and recover the good doctor's notes! 8-)


Nope, just read a few magazines and many books with just enough knowledge to be dangerous. 9-)

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 23, 2009 2:04:14 PM PDT
M. Ogre says:
Martin, Nuthin wrong with a little dangerous.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 23, 2009 6:54:26 PM PDT
Perhaps the real question is, "Should you or shouldn't you, go into the light?!:)"

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 23, 2009 8:59:14 PM PDT
Ronald Craig says:
Hey, Martin, nice touch with the kancho ... er, um, oh you know what I mean. ;)

(LGM ... Lorian Gray Materials? Nah, I didn't like the terms of their NDA, told 'em to take a hike.)

Posted on Jul 23, 2009 11:09:50 PM PDT
M. Helsdon says:

LGM: Little Green Men, or to match the latest fashion: Little Grey Men.

"oh you know what I mean."

Indeed. ;-)

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 24, 2009 9:43:58 AM PDT
Interesting. My new fiction novel is based on using new technology, anti-gravity for speed of light travel. The idea came from a documentary I had watched on the Discovery Channel. I'm fascinated with it. The name of my book is Hoodoo Sea.

Posted on Jul 24, 2009 9:23:49 PM PDT
Ronald Craig says:
Now HOODOO (HOODOO?! HOODOO?!) HOODOO ya think you're FOOLin'?! :D

Let's call this Craig's Law, how about? "The longer an Amazon discussion thread grows, the higher the probability that a self-publisher or POD-peep will appear and flog it in public."

Sorry, Rolf, but you can't have "speed of light travel" as we now understand the universe. Material objects cannot be accelerated to c from a lower speed. (Nor down to c from a higher, so forget them tachyons, too, OK?) Period. You're either moving at supra- or super-luminal speed, but never at exactly luminal. Never. Ain't gonna happen, no way no how. If you care about scientific accuracy, forget about it, paisano. (If you don't care about such things and just want to hack something together and see if you can make SOME BUCKS as a writer ... hey, there's an idee! ... go ahead and run amok with the facts. Be CREATIVE, knock yerself out! :D )

Considering some of the crap that gets aired on Discovery, National Geographic and History these days, you're well advised to look for secondary sources on anything you see on them.

And LOOK, here you on on a book site, with all sorts of science books to choose from! :D

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 24, 2009 9:48:30 PM PDT
M. Ogre says:
Ronald, I was about to say that I agree with everything you say here, but then I saw that you were knocking my beloved Discovery, NatGeo and etc channels, and I was about to say hey wait a minute buster. But then I remembered watching this program about a young physicist named Joao Magueijo, program was about his Big Bang Theory. The guy was proposing all kinds of wild theories to work-around current problems. It sounded like a WHOLE mess of bull, so I researched it, and it appears that a good portion of the ACTUAL scientific community seems to also take him with, umm, at least a grain of salt. And so then I thought, Oh, THAT'S what Ronald is talking about---THAT kinda stuff.

So yeah, Hoodoo dood, what he ^ said.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 24, 2009 11:08:35 PM PDT
M. Helsdon says:

Read the first 28 pages on your web page before the preview seized up without warning. Many issues in those pages but this probably isn't the venue to list them (spent 160 hours last year proofreading, commenting and doing information mining for a friend's sf novel - which is published by TOR on the 4th August).

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 24, 2009 11:23:59 PM PDT
M. Ogre says:
Martin, What's the book, what's it a bout?

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 25, 2009 5:55:54 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jul 25, 2009 6:00:55 AM PDT
M. Helsdon says:

Apologies for massive 'off topic' post: "Land of the Dead" - third in The Time of the Sixth Sun series:

"It's a small change in our history: Imagine that the Japanese made contact with the Aztec Empire. Instead of small-pox and Christianity, they brought an Imperial alliance, samurai ethics, and technology. By the time of these books, the Emperor in Mexico City rules not just the entire planet Earth, but a growing interplanetary Empire. But the Galaxy is not a hospitable place, and there are other powers, both new and very, very old, who would stop the spread of the power in Anahuac. A weapon of the Old Ones, from the time of the First Sun, has been found in a region of space. It must be investigated, then tamed or destroyed to keep it from the hands of opposing powers. Gretchen Anderssen, freelance archaeologist and specialist in First Sun artifacts, has been hired by her old mentor Green Hummingbird, agent of the Mirror Service, to join him in the study. They will be joined by old friends, and some old enemies as well."

This cover blurb is a little off. The Japanese fled a Mongol invasion in the early 1200s and the survivors ended up on the Pacific coast of North America; there weren't any Aztecs for the survivors to meet until much later. In the 2300s the Méxica (in political/military union with the Japanese, the New French of South America, the Skawts and the Éirish) eventually defeated their main rivals (the Danish Republic and the Swedish-Russians) and took control of most of human space, which includes many extra-solar colonies.

The first, "Wasteland of Flint" is an xenoarchaeological mystery; the second "House of Reeds" is more 'adventure on the North West Frontier'; "Land of the Dead" is space opera. There's a shifting set of main characters. Best to read them in sequence.

This is 'sort of' on topic because the technology of the Méxica Empire includes antigravity and counter-gravity, as well as antimatter based main drives for star ships and an (alien-sourced) hyperdrive.

The air cars and such that use antigravity for lift still need air-breathing turbines for propulsion.

Posted on Jul 25, 2009 1:56:39 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jul 25, 2009 1:57:26 PM PDT
Ronald Craig says:
So, kind of a Years of Rice and Salting the Stars thang? Sounds interesting. ;)

(That 4th August reference had me worried for a second that I'd stumbled onto another FoK ... Friend of Kevin [J. Anderson]! That's the day Jessica of Dune's Winds breaks.)

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 25, 2009 2:29:56 PM PDT
Dear Anti-gravity student. I found an article online about "Gravitons."
They are subatomic particles and supposedly responsible for gravity. I can't promise that I can find that article again, but maybe a GOOGLE search for gravitons would work. I wrote a short story just for fun about those little guys.

I hope I helped.

Bob Crigger

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 25, 2009 2:32:07 PM PDT
M. Helsdon says:

"So, kind of a Years of Rice and Salting the Stars thang? Sounds interesting. ;)"

Both are examples of the Alternate Past/Alternate Future sub-genre.

"(That 4th August reference had me worried for a second"

Seems to be the publication date for August.

In the Sixth Sun, Japanese piracy and raids seriously annoyed the Mongol Empire ruled by Yesükhei (the Mongols conquered China early) and there was no 'Divine Wind' to save them from invasion. There are other early changes in the time line as well, I believe, where Charlemagne wasn't so successful against the Saxons, and the Danes remained pagan for longer and later sacked Rome. The Chinese searching for additional sources of jade came into contact with the Maori, and with the example of Chinese hai-po they started building ocean-going ships themselves. There was no Norman invasion of England, instead a 'Stuart' dynasty conquered the Godwins by the early 17th century, with the aid of their Méxica patrons...

Some of this is hinted at in the books, though often filtered by Méxica propaganda. Some of the back history is derived in part from a strategy game Thomas has been running for twenty years or so.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 25, 2009 2:39:30 PM PDT
M. Helsdon says:

Gravitons are hypothetical 'mass-less' elementary particles. Attempts to include them in the current Standard Model have thus far failed, and at present there's no evidence that they exist. That may change if some of the ongoing experiments to detect gravity waves have results.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 25, 2009 8:51:15 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jul 25, 2009 9:02:41 PM PDT
M. Ogre says:
Martin, Reading what you wrote about the "hai-po", I wasn't sure if you were talking about the Chinese treasure flleets of the 1400's, which I've encountered very briefly in my travels. I googled hai-po, and came across a most interesting treatise on why the Chinese discontinued ocean-borne venture after the last treasure fleet expedition in 1433. The paper recaps Chinese naval history up thru the 15th century, and compares their circumstances to those in the West. I thought you might find it of interest.

Edit: I just now came upon your answer to my question about the book you did research for, that debuts Aug 4. This is very much my type of read, I'm fascinated by an author with the balls to take on take on rearranging history, I love history in general, and I'm due for a sci-fi read. Given the depth of knowledge, discipline, and the sense of intelligence I get from you, I'm thinking that if you oversaw the factual aspects of the book, it's probably going to keep my interest. I grant myself a "breadth of humor" in my own imaginings, but I have little patience for authors who range too far afield from "what realistically could be". I think I'll peruse your friend's series.

Edit2: In the spirit of keeping this post on topic, I'll mention that it was possibly repulsion to the gravity of the situation in the 15th century Chinese Imperial court, and the magnetic personality of Admiral Zheng He, that propelled the treasure fleets away from their mainland in the first place. Wa la! Gravity-repulsion based propulsion!!

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 26, 2009 1:15:46 AM PDT
M. Helsdon says:

Yes, that article is relevant, because the Yuan (Mongol) dynasties held on longer in the Sixth Sun time line in China (and Japan).

The reference to the hai-po is to the hai-po chuan, a sea-going junk with a compartmented hull and fore-and-aft lugsails on multiple masts. Some were over 200 feet long, with the largest at over 400 feet. In the Sixth Sun, these ships were used for trade and exploration, some reaching Aotearoa to trade in jade with the Maori.

There's a fair bit about the historical Chinese ships in one of the Osprey books about ships of the Far East.

I haven't overseen the 'factual aspects' - merely acted as a proofreader and checker for the author, provided bits of detail and chased information. The author is responsible for all of the creativity and effort. I had no input into 'Wasteland of Flint' (though there's a minor character named for me), more into 'House of Reeds' and 'Land of the Dead'. Each of the books occupies a slightly different genre which has confused some readers.

The series includes use of antigravity, nano technology, and a lot more.

Some of the reviewers of LoD have mistakenly described the scenes of space combat as similar to Star Wars, missing the references to distance and velocity -- the majority of the engagements are at tens or hundreds of thousands of kilometers, with missile swarms accelerating in at 100+ G and manned ships manoeuvring at 10+ G because of the use of 'g-decking' (and pretty nasty results in compartments where it fails).

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 26, 2009 1:31:01 AM PDT
Ronald Craig says:
Well, that last paragraph ("Edit2") pushed me off the fence: I now am definitely in support of them bringing back public floggings. >:D

If you're in the mood for some REAL wingnut fare, google "pico-gravitons" and "Autodynamics". Hardcore, pure lunatic pseudoscience with oodles of math thrown around to make it all look plausible. :D

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 26, 2009 6:17:55 AM PDT
M. Ogre says:
Martin, Nat Geo, History, or Discovery channel had a very nicely done program on Zheng He's fleets. Their focus was much more narrow historically than the treatise I noted, but they really fleshed out the ships and the make-up of the armadas themselves. Well done bit.

So, there's jade in New Zealand?

The stand-off space wars you describe sound oh so much more likely than the Star Wars kind. Even when I very first saw the first Star Wars back in the 70's, it immediately bothered me that a space battle would be fought up close, dog-fight style. That bothered me for about three seconds, though, didn't let it ruin the movie for me at all.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 26, 2009 6:23:58 AM PDT
M. Ogre says:
Ronald, That Joao Magueijo physicist fellow whom I mentioned earlier was postulating that the actual rate of the speed of light has changed several times over the millenia, in order to clean up incongruities in cosmological theory. I get the picture, I really do. That was enough exotica for me.
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