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The Real Upcoming Space Wars?


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In reply to an earlier post on Oct 11, 2009 1:06:18 PM PDT
Mrs. Garside says:
Oh, yes! It astounds me the way so many people denigrate human achievement. Easter Island, the pyramids, Stonehenge-none required 'alien' interference. Don't you think your own species is capable of anything?

As for 'space weapons', I'm sure we'll get there on our own. Whether this is good or bad is another question. . .

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 11, 2009 5:21:26 PM PDT
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In reply to an earlier post on Oct 12, 2009 7:11:04 AM PDT
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In reply to an earlier post on Oct 12, 2009 7:30:05 AM PDT
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In reply to an earlier post on Oct 12, 2009 10:43:07 AM PDT
M. Helsdon says:
""ANTI-GRAVITY PROPULSION" turned up these articles: "Anti-Gravity Comes Out Of The Closet" and "Exclusive Janes's Report: "Boeing Defies Gravity'"."

This is old news, based on a distortion of the facts: Podkletnov's experiments have never been successfully replicated and he was barred from the research facility where he supposedly performed the experiments. Boeing have also denied any involvement in GRASP (and if it were a real Black Project they simply wouldn't have replied at all.

See:

http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/gravity_research_020731.html

For the *real* story. Quote: "We are aware of Podkletnov's work on 'anti-gravity' devices and would be interested in seeing further development work being done. However, Boeing is not funding any activities in this area at this time," the statement said.

"The recent report that we are is based on a misinterpretation of information. For instance, GRASP is not a codename for a current project but rather an acronym for a presentation entitled "Gravity Research for Advanced Space Propulsion," in which a Boeing engineer explains Podkletnov's theory and proposes that we should continue to monitor this work and perhaps even conduct some low-cost experiments to further assess its plausibility. No steps have been taken beyond this point by Boeing."

At which point the story in Jane's fails to take off, much like Podkletnov's antigravity device.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 12, 2009 6:48:32 PM PDT
To Marilyn Martin:
Thanks a lot.

Posted on Oct 13, 2009 8:22:04 AM PDT
Esgaldil says:
Martin - I don't understand what benefit is gained by maintaining a state of disagreement. I still do not understand what information you are trying to convey, so I cannot disagree with you until I know what you are saying. The IndiaDaily articles do not refer to anything discussed in the Jane's articles that I can find - the IndiaDaily articles do not even mention a specific country, except for the one article about China. The J-10 is a real aircraft, and most of what IndiaDaily reports seems to be taken directly from other, earlier, more comprehensive articles. The mention of anti-gravity missile technologies (as a "rumour among the think tanks") does not even include a description of what that would mean.

I'm fine with non-human intelligence existing, visiting Earth, sharing technology, et cetera. But, for example, just because I believe that Elvis really did exist does not mean that the best way to find out the truth about Elvis is to randomly search the internet and give all text equal credibility - or to assign extra credibility to articles that tell me what I already believe. Learning to read is a rewarding, lifelong process that in my opinion is of far greater importance than whether or not Podkletnov was inspired by a previous invention of nonhuman design.

If you do wish to disagree with me, I have no problem with that, but please tell me what it is that I have said that you disagree with, and do not be alarmed if I provide evidence or reasoning that supports the truth of what I have asserted.

Also, you should be able to find a URL to an article while you are reading the article in question. I heartily agree with Walter R. Johnson that it would make it much easier to understand the truth you are trying to convey if we do not have to make our own searches in order to find the information that you are claiming is relevant to the discussion. If you don't care about the articles, don't refer to them. If you do care, take a moment to copy the url you are at while you are reading them. Thank you.

Posted on Oct 13, 2009 1:02:59 PM PDT
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Posted on Oct 13, 2009 2:10:43 PM PDT
I think the India Daily and Dell Customer Service are the same thing.

I would love to know what some of our most secret engineering projects are - I'll bet they are pretty cool (ET or not).

Posted on Oct 13, 2009 2:35:58 PM PDT
Zack G.C. says:
"I think the India Daily and Dell Customer Service are the same thing."

ROFL Will. :D 

Posted on Oct 13, 2009 2:36:24 PM PDT
D. Kneeland says:
Mrs. Garside says:
"Oh, yes! It astounds me the way so many people denigrate human achievement. Easter Island, the pyramids, Stonehenge-none required 'alien' interference. Don't you think your own species is capable of anything?

As for 'space weapons', I'm sure we'll get there on our own. Whether this is good or bad is another question. . ."

I have to agree. The pyramids is the achievement that usually gets under my skin the most since there's a observable evolution of architecture in all instances that occurred independently with the cultures that built them which all occurred at different time periods. The persistent belief that ET was involved in this phenomena involves a gross lack of knowledge about the development and capabilities of ancient civilizations.

Posted on Oct 13, 2009 8:51:35 PM PDT
Esgaldil says:
Martin - Thank you for including links to the articles, it is very helpful and much appreciated. The DARPA article is actually here:

http://www.globalpolicy.org/component/content/article/153-expansion-a-intervention/26126.html

I'm not sure if a failure rate of 85-90% in the pursuit of genuine innovation should be considered too high. Genuine science always includes testing hypotheses without knowing in advance whether the answer you get will be the one you're hoping for, and the further one travels from the familiar, the more likely it becomes that that path is a dead end - but it is still worth it to try, for that one discovery in a thousand that yields million-to-one results.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 14, 2009 1:00:34 AM PDT
M. Helsdon says:
"Many DARPA grants end up at the University of Florida. The "listing" of their Laboratories includes "International Center for Lightning Research and Testing" (Picking up where Tesla left off?)"

An easy assessment of their website and list of projects demonstates that instead of any 'Tesla'-conspiracy technology, they are researching lightning, its attributes and its impact on aircraft and other equipment and how to protect them from lightning strikes.

http://www.lightning.ece.ufl.edu/

No imaginary alien tech here. The other laboratories look equally prosaic.

Conspiracies and technological fables seem to gather around Tesla, and whilst he was a genius and towards the end of his life a very tragic figure, there's no evidence that any of his wilder ideas (death rays etc.) were ever anywhere near development or inspired by ETs.

Posted on Oct 14, 2009 5:29:41 AM PDT
Yog-Sothoth says:
"International Center for Lightning Research and Testing"

Well, Helsdon beat me to it - the Center is EXACTLY what it claims - a center to study lightning. I studied there a few years ago. Florida was picked because it has a high number of thunderstorms year-round.
Sorry, no arcane, "forbidden knowledge" there.

Posted on Oct 14, 2009 5:48:53 AM PDT
Yog-Sothoth says:
You know, I feel that MM has been taking a lot of flack for her posts on the Science Fiction Forum. Yeah - a lot of her postings are "out there" - but then again, this is SCIENCE FICTION. Now if some of these posts had showed up on the Science Forum, or Archaeology, I can understand the objections.. I notice she never claims any of the stuff she posts are factual - other than the fact that the information is out there - she posts it simply for the puposes of discussion. I suppose that someone posting about the "possibility" of an object in orbit near Jupiter with proportional dimensions of 1 x 4 x 9 would of course be completely laughed off the forum and forgotten - such an idea would never be brought up by any reasonable person. Arthur C. Clarke should have dumped that idea about 1950, and never written "The Sentinel"

Marilyn's posts are thought-provoking and entertaining - and that is all they are meant to be. YES, by all means, point out where her facts are wrong - but allow us all to make conjecture where there are no facts...

Posted on Oct 14, 2009 6:05:56 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 14, 2009 6:07:55 AM PDT
I can attest to Florida's lightening storms.

If you have a burning desire (no pun intended) to get hit by lightening - come to Tampa and run around on a golf course in the rain.

You will shake hands with Mr. Zappy in no time.

ET Government Story Time:

Now, this is second hand (third hand coming from me): A guy I worked with, had an Uncle that worked directly under Admiral Rickover. When he became an Engineer, his Uncle took him aside and said, " I can't give you details, but I just want you to know that we have been visited by people from other planets and we have some of their technology - that's all I'm going to tell you".

Also, my Dad had security clearance and worked on spy satellites ( I have a blog entry on spy-sat photography if anyone is interested). Anyway, he was working with the Air Force. One time when working alone with a Colonel, he asked, "With all of our optical equipment up there, have we ever photographed anything that we could say was definitely ET technology?"

The Colonel nodded affirmative and replied, "I am not authorized to say, yes."

Could these guys just have been having a little fun? - maybe - or - maybe not.

Twilight Zone Theme: Do-do-do- do-do- do-do...

Posted on Oct 14, 2009 6:28:46 AM PDT
LBOM,

I second that - I thoroughly enjoy Marilyn's posts.

They are the main reason I keep coming back here (other than to check my pitiful Amazon sales rating).

MM asks fun questions, that even when they are way out there, they still lead to some hard science discussions by interesting people.

Anyway, all ideas in science were "way out there" at some time.

Posted on Oct 14, 2009 6:52:23 AM PDT
THANK YOU kindly, Will, LBOM, and others! I'm so glad you understand why I post --- to entertain myself as well as others, with thought-provoking discussion based on speculation, theories, personal stories, and conjecture. And maybe just a kernal of truth that can't be explained away, to get the liveliest discussions going.

The thing about University of Florida getting so many DARPA grants is curious to me. I understand that the number of natural lightning strikes would make that educational facility perfectly situated to have a Lightning Laboratory. (My comment about Tesla, was that he was working on towers generating their own lightning, I believe, in his later life. And I wondered if UofF's lab was using or used his discoveries as a basis for their own research. That's all.)

So, Will, why do you think so many DARPA grants go to the University of Florida? Like the placement of Cape Canaveral, this thin finger of a state is surrounded by ocean, making up-and-over-water testing easier, and less available to prying eyes. And they seem to have a lot more laboratories than most Universities. I suspect that there is some advanced-weaponry research and testing going on in some (or most) of those laboratories. Just speculation ....

(Will, if you want to see a fascinating lecture, or bits and pieces from the same lecture, you may want to watch William Cooper's videos on You Tube. He claimed insider knowledge about ET-UFO technology. You don't need to be a "believer", just watch for the ideas he presents and explains.)

Posted on Oct 14, 2009 7:53:11 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 14, 2009 7:53:41 AM PDT
I can answer the Cape Canaveral question:

Cape Canaveral was chosen for a number of reasons.

First, Florida is the part of the United States that is closest to the equator. This gives rockets a nice synergic ascent boost for orbit. At the equator, you'd get about 1000mph for free (if you launch to the East). This gave us the best synergic boost while keeping it in the nice secure US.

Second, to launch East takes you over water all the way.

Third, believe it or not, The Cape has a pretty low number of Hurricane hits compared to the rest of Florida.

Unfortunately, Florida is the U.S. capital for lightning strikes - just ask the guys in Apollo 12 about that.

Posted on Oct 14, 2009 8:31:17 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 14, 2009 8:32:10 AM PDT
Thanks for the explanations, Will!

If anyone wants to more completely understand the U.S.'s (unclassified) commitment to outer-space weaponry, I offer the following link:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/space/library/policy/national/index.html

This is the 2006 U.S. National Space Policy. (With links to similar documents.)

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 14, 2009 11:28:06 AM PDT
M. Helsdon says:
LBOM,

The problem is that Marilyn reports material from tabloid webzines and other dubious sources and assumes they are real, without doing the research a 'truth seeker' should, if they are not to be misled by false information. For instance, on another thread Marilyn has just posted: "This is a 2008 article titled "Superconductors Enable Magnetic Flux Pinning For Spacecraft". ("Cornell University researchers propose that superconductors paired with permanent magnets could enable spacecraft to hover unpowered above the ground ...")"

http://www.eetasia.com/ART_8800514914_499501_NT_11f326ed.HTM

This is another web tabloid severely stretching the truth...

The reality was described in the May 09 2008 issue of Superconductor Week (which is not a tabloid but a scientific newsletter providing global coverage of the technology and commercialization of low- and high-temperature superconductors and cryogenics). It is also available on the web, and a simple search using the relevant keywords locates this valid information source.

http://superconductorweek.com/cms/

Flux-pinning does NOT "enable spacecraft to hover unpowered above the ground".

Cornell University received about $100,000 from Northrop Grumman to develop modules consisting of magnets and flux-pinning superconductors to maintain the position and orientation of spacecraft components over a very short distance (about one meter) to facilitate the assembly of these components together in microgravity.

The system is intended to maintain the relative position between modules, not to act as a form of 'antigravity'.

The presentation of distorted or totally inaccurate information in science or 'science fiction' isn't a form of speculation: an sf writer using flux-pinning as antigravity would receive post from readers pointing out the glaring error...

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 14, 2009 3:18:53 PM PDT
To Marilyn Martin:
Thanks for the New Scientist link. Unfortunately, the link for the global policy organization did not work -- at least not for me. Well, since the article that I was trying to access was about DARPA, I just decided to go to their website: http://www.darpa.gov/.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 14, 2009 3:39:09 PM PDT
To Esgaldil:
Thank you for the full Global Policy link.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 14, 2009 3:54:10 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 15, 2009 6:18:40 PM PDT
To LBOM:
Re: "I suppose that someone posting about the "possibility" of an object in orbit near Jupiter with proportional dimensions of 1 x 4 x 9 would of course be completely laughed off the forum and forgotten - such an idea would never be brought up by any reasonable person. Arthur C. Clarke should have dumped that idea about 1950, and never written "The Sentinel""

I guess I'm being picky, but there was no 1x4x9 black monolith in Clarke's short story "The Sentinel." In that story, the alien artifact was an alarm mechanism that was buried beneath a stone cairn on the moon and further protected by a force field. When humans figured out how to turn off the force field, a signal was then sent.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 14, 2009 7:36:18 PM PDT
Ronald Craig says:
There's a big difference between posting wild, fringe (=wingnut) ideas as potential material for science fiction stories and posting the same as truth.

Go check out Marilyn's "thought-provoking" posts in the Aliens community.

A rose is a rose is a rose, and a loon is a loon is a loon.
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