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Anti-gravity Out of Magnetics?


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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 29, 2009 1:25:22 AM PDT
Mary Clark says:
You need the help not I, you are an evil, hateful,
person. THIS is my first time here and I did not know how
to use the site. I MADE A MISTAKE and went overboard.
I apologize for offending anyone, I did not mean any harm.
This site has such EVILNESS on it. I MADE A MISTAKE.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 29, 2009 1:27:19 AM PDT
Mary Clark says:
AND yes it is TRUE, I went through EVERY
horrifying bit of it ZACK.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 29, 2009 6:38:21 AM PDT
M. Helsdon says:
Mary,

You should start a thread on one of the 'Health & Wellbeing' communities - there are 65 communities there and at least one should be a suitable venue:

http://www.amazon.com/communities/directory/health/ref=tag_tdt_dir_itdn

Alternatively, the Psychology Community may be suitable:

http://www.amazon.com/tag/psychology/ref=tag_tdt_jt_ijmp_redir

Posted on Aug 29, 2009 6:52:43 AM PDT
M. Helsdon says:
Doing a little more reading.... There are suggestions that unlike other forces in quantum field theory where the particles that transmit strong, weak and electromagnetic forces can have different types of charge (+/-) gravity only responds to energy density, which can only ever be positive. Therefore gravity is not like the other forces because it cannot have an opposite, and so anti-gravity cannot occur.

However, dark energy, if it exists, may act as a repulsive force, effectively a form of anti-gravity, but only over very very large scales. So if dark energy is ever found to be more than theoretical, and we find a way of capturing or creating it, we still won't be able to manufacture cars with anti-gravity.

Posted on Aug 29, 2009 6:57:12 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 29, 2009 6:57:55 AM PDT
Zack G.C. says:
True or not Mary, you're trying to milk it and make an easy buck off of something horrible.
Go see a therapist and quit spamming Amazon.

I am done.
Sorry to interrupt your discussion Marilyn.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 29, 2009 11:25:55 AM PDT
Hi Erik!

Actually, a lot of valuable advances in medicine have come out of major wars. WWI gave us sulfa drugs, and WWII gave us antibiotics. (Probably since keeping soldiers alive, despite infected wounds, was a major battlefield goal.) And our wars in the Gulf Region are (fortunately or unfortunately) giving us leaps forward in prosthetics.

Although the stateside VA seems to stay clueless as to how to help returning vets deal with their memories and trauma, as expressed in rage and suicidal thoughts/actions. I advocate a mandatory six-months of Group Therapy for all returning vets. Only other vets can truly understand the horrors experienced, and help other vets work thru the lingering trauma.

But, overall, you're right, how backwards it is to have war-related discoveries only trickle-down to the general population later. But huge government money only seems to be there for R&D related to weaponry or war-related technology. Private industry science research has to limp along on start-up money, private subsidies, or government grants. (Although all new grant requests are evaluated based on known science and engineering. What happens to the grant ideas that tackle science from a totally new perspective? I suspect they are routinely turned down.)

Hi, Zack!

No apologies necessary. I only rarely post here anymore anyway. Mainly because of the "duo" who seem to work overtime ripping every interesting post to shreds. (But I'm still posting and speculating. Check out the "Aliens" forum.)

Cheers!

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 29, 2009 12:01:36 PM PDT
M. Helsdon says:
"Actually, a lot of valuable advances in medicine have come out of major wars. WWI gave us sulfa drugs, and WWII gave us antibiotics."

Um, no.

For WW1 you are thinking of sulphur powder, used in the treatment of wounds.

The first antimicrobial drugs were the Sulfonamides (known as sulfa) first synthesized in 1906, but experiments with Prontosil started in 1932 and it and similar drugs were only available in the 30s. Sulfa powder was issued for use in WW2, not WW1.

The first available antibiotics (gramicidin and tyrocidine) were developed by microbiologist René Dubos in 1939, merely coincidental with the start of WW2. Alexander Fleming identified Penicillin in 1928 and restarted his clinical trials in 1934.

"No apologies necessary. I only rarely post here anymore anyway. Mainly because of the "duo" who seem to work overtime ripping every interesting post to shreds. (But I'm still posting and speculating. Check out the "Aliens" forum.)"

The mélange of warped and bizarre ideas there (generally ignoring logic and rational explanations) coupled with weird conspiracy theories (apparently anyone who is 'negative' to the beliefs expressed is paid to do so) is truly... sad.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 29, 2009 12:05:48 PM PDT
We know that anti-matter exists so why not the possibility of anti-gravitons. You should read Time Storm 2012, it's a fiction novel but it has a lot of cool science about this type of stuff.

Posted on Aug 29, 2009 12:39:42 PM PDT
M. Helsdon says:
Hi Samantha,

"We know that anti-matter exists so why not the possibility of anti-gravitons. You should read Time Storm 2012, it's a fiction novel but it has a lot of cool science about this type of stuff."

Unfortunately, gravitons are purely hypothetical elementary particles which have not been detected, and may be undetectable; gravitons and anti-gravitons are fine in 'science fiction', but if gravitons don't exist then that goes for anti-gravitons as well.

Antimatter doesn't appear to have any special properties other than being composed of antiparticles; from the artificial production of antihydrogen and antihelium, these atoms don't exhibit any antigravity properties. It is conceivable that somewhere in the cosmos there might be stars and planets composed of antimatter.

From its title and exerpt 'Time storm 2012' looks to be 2012 millenarianism/eschatology fiction. I'm sure it is entertaining.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 29, 2009 1:13:33 PM PDT
Hi Samantha,

Thanks for the Time Storm 2012 recommendation. It was only $1 for the Kindle e-book version, so figuring, "What the heck, only $1", I bought it. I'll let you know what I think. (I love my Kindle!!)

Also, Mr. Helsdon is correct that gravitons are currently theoretical. Also, someone else asked your question at http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=75329 An interesting answer there was -> "You are assuming that if there is a force carrier particle such as a gravitons, then automatically it implies that there will be an "anti-gravitons". This is not true in every cases. A photon, which is the force carrier for EM interactions, is its own anti particle! This means that just because we have a particulate carrier, does not automatically imply that an "anti particle" of an opposite kind has to exist." So an anti-graviton might not be anti gravity.

Martin, re. that Antimatter does not appear to have special properties, wasn't there some theory that perhaps some do? I seem to remember that this comes up with the question about why, if matter and anti-matter were both created at the early stages of the universe, they should have been in equal amounts, and thus totally obliterated each other. But we have matter left in the universe so something needs to account for this. I also seem to remember that one of the anti-particles we know about does not exactly behave like it should, and that could give a hint to the answer. I may be misstating this, or it might be related to question of [non-physics people tune out here] CP or CPT symmetry holding. Does that ring a bell? I'll try to research more if you want.

Posted on Aug 29, 2009 1:23:45 PM PDT
Zack G.C. says:
Hey Marilyn.
What duo? 0_o

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 29, 2009 1:38:12 PM PDT
M. Helsdon says:
Hi R.A Lee,

"This means that just because we have a particulate carrier, does not automatically imply that an "anti particle" of an opposite kind has to exist." So an anti-graviton might not be anti gravity."

Aren't they Majorana particles which can annihilate with themselves?

"re. that Antimatter does not appear to have special properties, wasn't there some theory that perhaps some do?"

Not certain which theory you are referring to.

"I seem to remember that this comes up with the question about why, if matter and anti-matter were both created at the early stages of the universe, they should have been in equal amounts, and thus totally obliterated each other."

I believe you are referring to CP violation? That parity conservation that has been observed in strong or electromagnetic interactions but not the weak interaction(s), suggesting an imbalance in the very very early universe, that in those extreme conditions matter and antimatter did not behave in the same way.

"I also seem to remember that one of the anti-particles we know about does not exactly behave like it should, and that could give a hint to the answer."

I *think* you are referring to CP-violation in the neutral kaon system, leading to Andrei Sakharov's ideas about baryon interaction creating matter and anti-matter at different rates - but I'm heading out areas I'm at all confident of.

I've just downloaded the first few pages of 'Time storm 2012' - there are issues with its physics, geology and Mayan history, and the exerpt on Amazon doesn't use the term 'asteroid' in the usual sense. Fine as fiction, but not science. 9-(

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 29, 2009 1:39:08 PM PDT
Zack, don't ask! You'll start another round of posts that are better left unsaid. They are buried in earlier posts on this discussion. Separately, I was temped to ask what Mary posted below that was removed and generated some sparks here, but figured I had better not if we are to stay on topic.

Meanwhile, I looked up more on Anti-matter. For you Angels and Demons fans, CERN has posted some information at http://public.web.cern.ch/Public/en/Spotlight/SpotlightAandD-en.html

And at CERN's new site about the book, at http://angelsanddemons.cern.ch/antimatter/making-antimatter they state that "Your body emits antimatter! The body of a person weighing 80 kg emits 180 positrons per hour! This comes from the decay of potassium-40, a naturally occurring isotope that is ingested by drinking water, eating food and breathing." COOL! (Of course, I wonder if the folks who speculate about 'spontaneous human combustion' know about this!)

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 29, 2009 1:52:28 PM PDT
M. Helsdon says:
Off topic.

"Separately, I was temped to ask what Mary posted below that was removed and generated some sparks here, but figured I had better not if we are to stay on topic."

From another thread, it looks as though a certain publisher advises their authors to pursue a strategy for sales on Amazon communities that is liable to bring a great deal of grief for the poster. 9-(

"The body of a person weighing 80 kg emits 180 positrons per hour!"

A sparkling personality? 9-)

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 29, 2009 1:54:04 PM PDT
Hi Martin,

Yes, now that you mention it, I think I was thinking about the neutral kaon system that exhibits CP violation. Thanks!
(PS... for those of you that think we are speaking in another language, C stands for charge. That is, if you change all charges from negatives to positives, electomagnetic equations still work perfectly well. P stands for, I think, Position or if you think of the mirror image of a particle everything will be reversed. It was thought that all particles/motions/equations of physics stay unchanged if you change the charges of particles and flip them in a mirror. Not true in rare cases. You have to add Time (CPT) so you need to also make the object go backwards in time. CPT is assumed to hold true for all of physics. At least, this is my simple way of thinking about these theories.)

Interestingly, at the public.web.cern site they state-> "By the way, this shows that the symmetry between matter and antimatter as stated above does not seem to hold at very high energies, such as shortly after the Big Bang, as otherwise there should be as much matter as antimatter in the Universe. Future research might tell us is how this asymmetry came about."

The CP-violation idea helped me find this article too, which states that some pure mathematical approaches to CP-violation could explain the matter/antimatter imbalance. See-> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090325132855.htm

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 29, 2009 2:05:36 PM PDT
Martin-> "A sparkling personality?" Funny! I guess that means all of us overweight Americans have some compensation in the form of additional sparkling!

Bob

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 29, 2009 2:17:25 PM PDT
M. Helsdon says:
R.A. Lee,

"P stands for, I think, Position or if you think of the mirror image of a particle everything will be reversed."

Parity: a mirror image.

Posted on Aug 29, 2009 7:37:12 PM PDT
Zack G.C. says:
R.A., I read, and I see.
As for the post: it was much like something James Frey would do.
Interesting idea's back there, too.
I read a lot of this stuff to learn (thank you Marrrrriiilllynnn...) but often don't post because my science is only general, and probably creaky.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 30, 2009 10:04:22 AM PDT
Hi Zack!

"Lurkers", who read and contemplate, but don't post, are always welcome! And you don't need a science degree to ask questions. I too only have a general knowledge of science and technology, but the "possibilities" fascinate me. And practically everything I read anymore generates questions. Sometimes I chime into an active (or even inactive) thread. Other times I'll start my own discussion.

It's all part of the learning, or exploring process. And for most intelligent people, this questing-process should never end. Nor should it be ridiculed or put-down by others with advanced degrees. All of the gentlemen scientists in this and other forums, gently correct or provide links when they see something inaccurate posted, with all due respect and civility.

Many people in this Science Fiction forum don't like "speculation" type discussions, so I've basically de-camped to other forums. But anyone and everyone should feel free to "lurk" in any and all of these Amazon forums --- read, think, do further research if you want, post if you chose.

Enjoy!

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 30, 2009 11:23:45 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 30, 2009 11:29:23 AM PDT
Zack G.C. says:
Well, in that case:
I actually came with this idea maybe 4 years ago (when I was 12). I thought magnetics was a possible choice to make flying-cars easily. The magnets could be buried underground like telephone lines. However, that would take too long and cost too much money. Ho hum :/

Actually, the idea that fascinates me is the Dyson sphere. Is there any real science behind it?

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 30, 2009 11:55:42 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 30, 2009 11:56:43 AM PDT
M. Helsdon says:
Zack,

"I thought magnetics was a possible choice to make flying-cars easily. The magnets could be buried underground like telephone lines."

Actually, that's maglev -- the only thing is the 'cars' don't fly very high, but they are levitated above the track. There are several working railway maglev systems scattered around the world: the first was at Birmingham International Airport, UK but it closed in 1995 due to technical difficulties; there's one at Shanghai and a few in Japan. Maglev systems can be more efficient than aircraft, but their actual height is only a few centimeters above the track. Achieving anything higher is unlikely to be feasible and there would be major stability problems because the 'car' would slip 'off' the track out of the field... and fall to Earth.

"Actually, the idea that fascinates me is the Dyson sphere. Is there any real science behind it?"

Freeman Dyson, who came up with the concept is a theoretical physicist and mathematician; he has worked in the fields of quantum field theory, solid-state physics and nuclear engineering. The Dyson Sphere is one of his thought experiments - it would require a Type II Kardashev civilization having access to technologies and materials far beyond our own. It is a theoretical means of harnessing the total output of a star. SETI has been using the Infrared Astronomical Satellite (IRAS) to look for such a megastructure, but no candidates have been identified.

http://home.fnal.gov/~carrigan/infrared_astronomy/Fermilab_search.htm

There are several other similar theoretical megastructures in science fiction, the most famous being Larry Niven's 'Ringworld'.

Posted on Aug 30, 2009 1:15:53 PM PDT
Zack G.C. says:
Hmm.
thanks for that interesting tidbit Helsdon.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 31, 2009 7:05:26 AM PDT
Hi Zack!

If you are interested in speculative-propulsion, you may want to check out the Space Opera forum, and the discussion about "Propulsion in Space Opera".

Posted on Aug 31, 2009 8:01:38 AM PDT
Zack G.C. says:
Okay Marilyn.
Actually, I have read some of it.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 5, 2009 9:27:49 AM PDT
Hi Zack!

As you and other science-minded young people head back to school, and start scatching your heads over what to do for that Science Project, here are some fascinating tidbits from the World of Magnets:

--- freepatentonline.com lists U.S. Patent 6646910: "A magnetic memory includes a circuit configured to apply a reverse mangnetic field to one or more half-selected magnetic memory cells, to improve half-select margin in the magnetic memory."

--- osti.gov/bridge.com, has Subject 70: "Plasma Physics and Fusion Technology". This government entity is looking for R&D on "The TPX Magnet". Or R&D on the magnetic superconductors in the "Tokamak Physics Experiment".

--- physorg.com has an article titled: "Single-Molecule Magnets Open Door for Information Technology". It states that "Scientists in Italy and France show that single molecules have the ability to store information via their magnetic state."

AND NOW FOR THE COOL FUN STUFF!

--- K&JMagnets.com sells neodymium and samarium cobalt magnets. Check out their "Other" category for everything from "demagnetized magnet blanks", to "Magna-View Film", to "Mag-neato Toys".

--- getbuckyballs.com advertises the newest version of Rubik's Cube, or handfuls of small magnet balls to reshape. (HINT: Don't swallow them!)

Cheers!
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Initial post:  Jul 17, 2009
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