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The last good SF film I saw was:


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Posted on Jun 20, 2012 1:51:48 PM PDT
Patrica: Re Shane, you actually agree with me since that is exactly what I said. He did what he had to do to survive and get the medicine back to the boy. Then his guilt drove him nuts. That is just what I said. I think it was J Schwartz I was having the discussion with or 3 Dollar, so you can disagree with them, not me.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 20, 2012 1:55:17 PM PDT
"You don't know that. If you'll remember the bar scene when Herschell went to drown his sorrows, and Rick and crew went to retrieve him they ran into some other outsiders. There was some other outsiders that came along looking for their crew (when the kid fell on the iron picket fence). Rick several of those guys and the zombies stopped running them and ate them. Get it? " What does that mean?
"Rick several of those guys and the zombies stopped running them and ate them. Get it? " I do not get it. It makes no sense. The Zombies only eat the living, which is really the point. Otis had to be wounded, slowed down so the Zombies would fall on him and Shane could get away. Period.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 20, 2012 2:12:47 PM PDT
J. Schwarz says:
You need to get out more if you like robot men, however I guess I would enjoy a robotic female. Maybe I need to get out more too.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 20, 2012 2:19:24 PM PDT
@Jeff Walther

1) [*graduating* high schoolers ] OK, ya got me there :-)

2) [led by a top rocket engineer ] Yes, but still a bit far from Apollo

3) [modding an existing design ] Didn't the Nazis buy an off-the-shelf suborbital rocket also? Or was that another Nazis-in-space book (I've run across at least a couple in some recent delving into early juvie SF.)

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 20, 2012 3:00:38 PM PDT
Jeff Walther says:
"3) [modding an existing design ] Didn't the Nazis buy an off-the-shelf suborbital rocket also? Or was that another Nazis-in-space book (I've run across at least a couple in some recent delving into early juvie SF.) "

I don't think that the origins of the Nazi spacecraft were ever explained.

The propulsion method was the concept which later came to be known as NERVA by NASA. With such a greater Isp (more push per unit fuel) a much smaller, less complex rocket can reach the moon, than what we would expect now days.

Of course the engineering difficulties in implementing NERVA are rather glossed over. :-)

Posted on Jun 20, 2012 5:43:22 PM PDT
Donna,
You seem to be indicating that he killed Otis out of an altruistic reason - to survive to bring the medicine to the boy. He did it to save himself, and he took it on himself to decide to judge that he was more important than Otis. He knew that it was wrong, and he did not do it for an altruistic reason. Or, at least, I do not believe he did. He killed another man to save himself. He knew it was wrong. He knew HE wouldn't want to be killed so Otis could live. It wasn't to save the medicine and the boy.
If I read you wrong, I apologize.

Posted on Jun 20, 2012 9:06:13 PM PDT
Patricia--you are on the right track at what I'm saying about Shane in TWD. He did it to save himself, and acted as judge, juror, and executioner. Ethics vs survival. It is an ambiguous action, but you have to take into account his actions throughout the entire series as well:

SPOILER to THE WALKING DEAD

1. Shane leaves Rick to die in the hospital when the world plague happens
2. He lies to Lori and Carl (the kid) that Rick had died, to start shagging Rick's wife
3. When Rick does finally show up, he has thoughts of killing him with a gun in one episode when they are in the forest.
4. In one episode, he tries to rape Andrea (they later get together anyway for a quickie)
5. He essentially kills Otis--is it altruistic or more selfish? to get back together with Lori and Carl (thinking maybe he can still kill Rick somewhere later?) b.) He also shaves his head this episode--a turning point in his mental health? He knows he did something wrong by killing Otis an it haunts him!!
6. He wants to kill the young teen (outsider) who gets impaled on the fence
7. He later breaks the teen's neck in the woods
8. He's lied to everyone about Otis' death, they later find out the truth.
9. Even they are at odds with him then & think he's a loose cannon.
10. He also starts to leave Rick in one episode when they were scavenging for supplies--Rick ends up saving his butt by picking him up from being trapped in a school bus.

So is he a survivor, a hero for saving Carl, or a psychopath--maybe a mixture of all three, but I think his goals were more self serving, and in such a situation, I wouldn't want him around either, if he'd kill Otis and the teenager, he'd just as soon kill you too if he needed to get out of a jam.

Posted on Jun 20, 2012 9:09:21 PM PDT
Plus I might add about saving the kid and killing Otis--Shane didn't even know whether by the time he got back to the farm whether the kid would still be alive. What if he's shot Otis and got back to the farm only to find out the child had died? He might have killed him for nothing, plus in that episode, Shane had sprained his ankle...

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 20, 2012 9:39:44 PM PDT
J. Schwarz says:
What are you discussing? Have no clue who Carl, Shane, Rick, Lori and Otis are. Just curious.

Posted on Jun 20, 2012 10:19:32 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 20, 2012 10:21:37 PM PDT
Walking Dead TV program.
Please give it a try.
We should discuss TV series on other thread.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 20, 2012 11:29:43 PM PDT
Patricia: It appears I have read YOU wrong. Yes, I do think he was trying to save himself so he could return with the medicine for the boy. BUT I think that his reason for doing that was to prove to Lori he was the man for her and Carl. However you look at it it was a selfish reason. I do, however, believe that both could not have survived. One of them had to be sacrificed to the Walkers or they both would have been taken. Shane realized this as perhaps Otis did not. So he took matters into his own hands and made the decision to insure that he survived to get back to the camp with the meds. I don't think even Shane consciously thought about much of anything except he had to get back to Lori and Carl to show them he was The Man.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 20, 2012 11:41:45 PM PDT
The entire purpose of the journey was to get the meds for Carl. Shane was still in love with Lori and thought if he could do this for Carl he could get Lori back.
I do not think he left Rick in the hospital in the beginning, thinking he was going to live or that he even had any other choice but to leave Rick. I believe he believed Rick had died when he told Lori so. No, I don't think Shane was a great guy, but I think he made some hard choices when they had to be made. If he knew only one of them could escape that zombie chase he decided it would be him and if he could get that medicine back to Lori and Carl and save Carl he would be in with Lori again. And yes, he felt guilty about it, he was haunted, and went down hill from there. I also don't think they had much choice with the teenager. He was going to tell his buddies where they were. His buddies were not the good guys, they were scum.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 20, 2012 11:43:25 PM PDT
The Walking Dead on AMC on TV. Season 3 will begin again in the fall.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 21, 2012 9:42:04 AM PDT
Donna, certainly Shane had a choice with the teenager, he could have let him live in the wood, he could have befriended him and said something along the lines--"Hey look man, I've been wrong about you." "We've treated you badly, we were scared, but come back to our group, and we'll make amends." Etc. That's another choice, but then, I'm rewriting the script, which was not the script that happened on TV. But all I'm stating is that there's always a choice because it's fiction and characters, story, & plots can be manipulated anyway the writer/s sees fit. But overall the entire group treated him badly, so naturally he's going to run away--he was terrorfied they were going to kill him.

One thing I'll say about the show, however, is that it's written well. There's ambiguity there which allows the viewer to think about the characters and their actions. It's people under a lot of stress, and it forces you to think, what would I do? I'm looking forward to Season 3, which I thought would air around Halloween, but I'm not sure. At any rate, they'll rebroadcast the entire season around July 4th I believe is what I'd heard. If anyone catches the air times post it here for those interested. Of course they're on DVD too and you can watch them that way, and some libraries have the graphic novels to read too, which varies a bit from the TV series.

Posted on Jun 21, 2012 9:48:34 AM PDT
One other insight I might have on whether Shane lied to Lori about Rick's death or not: When Rick DOES show back up and they all find out that he'd lived, the honorable thing to do for Shane is to butt out, and wise up and act like a man. Stop yearning like a whipped pup, get over his love for Lori and move on. Andrea looks a lot better to me, she would be who I'd shifted my attention to :). At any rate, I think what Kirkman et al are trying to get at is that these are characters with flaws, just like in real life. We have decisions in real life, sometimes we make the right ones and wrong ones.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 21, 2012 9:50:36 AM PDT
J. Schwarz--we were talking about The Walking Dead series which airs on the AMC Channel, also on DVD, and check your library, many libraries have these to check out in book form. They are great!

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 21, 2012 10:30:02 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 21, 2012 10:31:42 AM PDT
Yes, but if all the characters behaved well we would have no story. And the truth is people do not behave well all the time and the more stressful the situation the more it tests us. Shane did back off but not easily and he hever let go of his hope, wish, desire to get Lori back. It would be a pretty boring world and story if everyone behaved honorably all the time.
Also, if he had let the teenager go he would have gone to his people and led them to the farm.
I too heard there will be a Talking Dead preview of the coming season in July but don't have a date yet.

Posted on Jun 25, 2012 11:42:22 AM PDT
J. Spear says:
This isn't a discuss The Walking Dead (AMC) thread.....

My favorite Sci-fi I've seen recently was definitely Prometheus. I loved it and want to see it again.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 25, 2012 11:59:17 AM PDT
Prometheus was great, saw it in 3D and would love to see again too. This is one that needs to be seen on the big screen. See it.

Posted on Jun 25, 2012 7:46:45 PM PDT
J. Spears, I'm not trying to be SF dictator, but I'd like to keep the discussion open, and since I started the thread, I'm open to a lot of speculative fiction when discussing things, whether it's The Walking Dead, or anything else for that matter.

Here's an interesting list of 25 Classic SF Films from the i09.com site. Some I like better than others, and Inception I didn't care for much at all: http://io9.com/5619137/25-classic-science-fiction-movies-that-everybody-must-watch?tag=scifi101

Prometheus was a good movie, and I've still yet to see it in 3D but that would be interesting. I liked it a lot, and some fans, less so, but I think just taken as a stand alone SF film it's a good one. Scott does such great atmospheres and set design. If you want to listen to a round table type talk about the movie you can hear a podcast here, it's interesting:
http://ifanboy.com/podcasts/06-10-2012-prometheus/

As they state in the podcast, Prometheus was the first part of a proposed trilogy, I don't know if that's still their intent, but it would be cool if they finished the other two films.

I was just over on NF and added a BBC SF series to my que, that I'd never heard of before, but someone on another SF thread mentioned it so I thought I'd check it out. It's called Survivors. There's a newer version of it, but this is from the 70's.

Posted on Jun 25, 2012 7:51:05 PM PDT
I got Survivors on my Netflix account, also. We can discuss it together as we watch episodes.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 25, 2012 8:35:23 PM PDT
There is a new Survivors which I have in my cue but haven't watched yet. I have so many in my cue and so little time, LOL.

Posted on Jun 25, 2012 9:32:49 PM PDT
mitch says:
Prometheus was pretty good. In character development though R. Scott lapsed into some similarities with the original Alien. Rather than give us a ship full of space travellers dedicated to achieving a common goal Scott gives us very different and quirky characters with different levels of committment to the mission or none at all(Theron). With the considerable expense of mounting this type of interstellar mission you would think they would insist on only taking true believers. To me Scott tried a little to hard to make these characters quirky. But overall this is just a minor complaint about an otherwise fine film.

Posted on Jun 25, 2012 9:46:31 PM PDT
Patricia, I moved Survivors to the top of my list so I'll watch it perhaps this weekend. Donna, I thought I might prefer the older series over the newer one, seems to be my taste in things. I'll post my thoughts later after I've seen it. But let us know what you think about the newer series when you get around to it. Mitch--yep it was a fine film. I know I'll have to own a copy--there's a three hour director's cut--gotta have for me.

The movie I saw over the weekend isn't SF, but I enjoyed it enough to post a rec on it. It was called The Grey, and starred Liam Neesom. Actually I think it came close to a horror film, but also action/adventure. At any rate, I enjoyed it quite a bit so thought I'd mention it.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 25, 2012 10:01:55 PM PDT
I think Prometheus was a modern view of space travel. Remember we have basically shut down the US space program. If we want to go into space we will be riding as a Russian guest. Corporations paying for space travel will be the only other way we will get there. So it is pretty realistic I think. Corporations will have other motives than altruistic ones.
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Discussion in:  Science Fiction forum
Participants:  52
Total posts:  530
Initial post:  Apr 25, 2012
Latest post:  Jul 4, 2012

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