Customer Discussions > Science forum

Can evolution produce a Supreme Being?


Sort: Oldest first | Newest first
Showing 1-25 of 722 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Oct 7, 2011 1:28:15 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Dec 30, 2011 12:56:41 PM PST
Seeker says:
edit: I find it interesting that the science oriented here decline to discuss the logic of probability as it pertains to a Supreme being, with some notable exceptions.....

And the religious don't discuss it even though it gives them a credible theory, which is more than they are using now........

original post: I would bet that it can, and has. All you need are two things:

1. Evolution

2. Infinity

edit: Everything may be infinite. Space, time, size, speed, temperature, many things we don't even quantify because we are unaware of them.

We just haven't acquired the capability to properly conceptualize the parameters, much less investigate any further than what we presently perceive.

Posted on Oct 7, 2011 1:43:04 PM PDT
LDV

Not impossible, but very, very highly improbable.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 7, 2011 1:48:16 PM PDT
Steve abrams says:
Yes Supreme Pizza at Pizza Hut.
Wait can you define Supreme?

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 7, 2011 1:48:36 PM PDT
Marcos says:
No. Evolution leaves animals, plants, bacteria, viruses, fungi, etc. with too much baggage from how they used to live before. Humans have tons of baggage.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 7, 2011 2:09:44 PM PDT
Seeker says:
I would disagree. If you run the numbers, it is almost a certainty. And I'm not speaking as a religionist.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 7, 2011 2:10:52 PM PDT
Seeker says:
Yeah, a combination, heavy on the sausage and extra vegies.....

But that's only what I believe....

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 7, 2011 2:13:28 PM PDT
Seeker says:
So you are saying that there is no eventual possibility that an intelligence will evolve past having a body? Even with technological help? Maybe combining into a single entity?

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 7, 2011 2:17:59 PM PDT
LDV

Could you speculate on how we could going about ditching the body? I have a personal interest because I want to get rid of mine without dying and I don't believe the idea of souls.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 7, 2011 2:36:18 PM PDT
Seeker says:
Lots of study being done in that regard. Using the brain, disconnected from the body comepletely, downloading the electrical activity into a computer or even the net, combining individuals. Fascinating stuff, and some of it scary. Can you imagine being used to run some kind of machinery with no sensory perceptions? Probably being rewarded for good performance by getting a jolt of cocaine in your IV?

Eventually, it should get to the point that even mechanicals become unnecessary. Nanoparticles or viruses, or even electrical energy or light.

Posted on Oct 7, 2011 2:58:03 PM PDT
Seeker says:
Everything is infinite. Space, time, size, speed, temperature, many things we don't even quantify because we are unaware of them.

We just haven't acquired the capability to properly conceptualize the parameters, much less investigate any further than what we presently perceive.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 7, 2011 3:17:24 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 7, 2011 3:20:33 PM PDT
LDV

But given the track record of species on earth, the odds that any given divergent species will survive long enough to evolve into a supreme beastie are long.

edited to add: our universe is of finite time, therefore, unless there is some way for a species to survive the approaching disco void and jump to a new universe, infinite time is not avaiable.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 7, 2011 3:25:26 PM PDT
Bill M. says:
What criteria are you using to distinguish a "supreme being" from an organism that isn't?

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 7, 2011 3:26:12 PM PDT
Seeker says:
Well, as I said, infinity has to exist to make it work. I happen to believe it does.

The track record of species on earth are pretty questionable. But what about the accumulated effort of every intelligence in the universe? Or even a multiverse? It is pretty arrogant of us to always seem to assume we, and our world, are the only meaningful data to be entered into the equation.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 7, 2011 3:29:20 PM PDT
Seeker says:
Interesting question. I rarely get questions that I need to read twice. At first, I thought you were being facetious, but your question has many levels.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 7, 2011 3:29:32 PM PDT
LDV

I was not assuming earth species are a gold standard, just the only ones we can make statements about.

Posted on Oct 7, 2011 3:35:38 PM PDT
I think that if two or more human spirits can leave their bodies and join each other so that they are still two separate spirits but they act as one then in that case a Supreme Being can evolve. The more spirits that join in the stronger that Supreme Being will become and hopfully it will be a better Supreme Being than the current one. The current Supreme Being made a huge mistake when it made all living creatures depend upon eating other living creatures in order to survive

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 7, 2011 3:35:52 PM PDT
Seeker says:
I would have to posit that in order to satisfy my own definition, poorly defined, I'm sure for others, that the Being would have to have:

1. limitless existence
2. have limitless capacity for perception and knowledge
3. have a capacity to control an environment

How about you? Anything missing or unnecessary?

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 7, 2011 3:40:05 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 7, 2011 3:42:00 PM PDT
Seeker says:
Well, given an infinite amount of time for evolution to occur, surely there have been species that have evolved to other places than we might expect. Besides, even we are close to combining technological capabilities with our minds. Given the possibilities, they evolve into probability.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 7, 2011 3:40:46 PM PDT
Seeker says:
In your opinion.....

Posted on Oct 7, 2011 3:45:01 PM PDT
Limitless existence and limitless perception and knowledge could not be determined. Only a limitation could prove limitless not to be. So then as long as the Being existed one could say it has limitless existence. Since it's limitless existence would be existence that never ended one could only prove that it did not have limitless existence not that it did. The same holds true for perception and knowledge; it would need to stop thinking for one to say it's perception and knowledge were not limitless and if it stopped thinking it's existence would end also.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 7, 2011 3:53:02 PM PDT
Seeker says:
So you are saying that we have a paradox. I disagree, and besides, proving that something is limitless hasn't been done in any way that I know of, yet. The closest I can think of is in mathematics, and the proof is in the continuing, not the limiting.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 8, 2011 5:47:27 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 8, 2011 5:48:38 AM PDT
LDV - "edit: Everything is infinite. Space, time, size, speed, temperature, many things we don't even quantify because we are unaware of them."

Your assumptions seem a bit hazy. Are you basing them on anything other than the idea that it would be really cool if they were true?

"Can evolution produce a Supreme Being? "

How would you know a given being was supreme? How could you differentiate a being that was 10^101 times smarter or more powerful than you from one that was only 10^100 times smarter or more powerful? One would be ten times smarter than the other, which is far greater than the gap separating us from chimps, but they'd both be about as far from us as we are from, say, a tree frog.

Posted on Oct 8, 2011 6:57:53 AM PDT
Tim the Duke says:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega_Point

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 8, 2011 8:27:43 AM PDT
mark says:
Might I suggest evolution, acting towards infinity, will only lead to a "superior" being, as opposed to a "supreme" being? For a being to be supreme, it must be supreme over any and all other beings, of which we have no knowledge. It is not safe to say a supreme being will evolve from any specific lifeform, but only that some lifeform may probably improve immensely given enough time.

So what is it to be "supreme"? Omni-this, omni-that, omni-everything? Granting the concept of infinity, how many omni-s are there? It stands to reason that given enough omni-s, eventually there might be one by which the heretofore supreme being is found lacking. It follows that if there is an omni that doesn't apply, how can that judgment be made, except by an entity that has the ability to conceptualize such a failure? Conversely, given that same infinite conceptualization, any supreme being, strictly speaking, once allowed to hold such title, only holds that title tentatively, which is quite contradictory.

Another view.....granting both your ingredients above, an infinity of evolution suggests that a being should evolve to superior, but the concept of evolving to supreme is unreachable, which precludes an affirmative answer to the question, and also precludes the necessity of conceptualizing the parameters.

Is there an answer? Dunno. Being a fan of FAPP and infinite regress, I personally reconcile one with the other, which makes a supreme anything interesting, but un-necessary.

Peace

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 8, 2011 12:42:30 PM PDT
LDV,

This certainly transcends anything it could mean to be "human." I must wonder if, in the absence of "mechanicals" whether a notion of "being" even applies. Clearly, a "consciousness" must remain coherent in some sense (i.e., it should be capable of coordinated functioning). How could this be accomplished by a "being" of electrical energy? Beyond that, there's no reason to imagine that such a being would necessarily be "supreme" in any sense. I don't see how evolution could bring a being to such a point.
‹ Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ... 29 Next ›
[Add comment]
Add your own message to the discussion
To insert a product link use the format: [[ASIN:ASIN product-title]] (What's this?)
Prompts for sign-in
 


 

This discussion

Discussion in:  Science forum
Participants:  83
Total posts:  722
Initial post:  Oct 7, 2011
Latest post:  Sep 5, 2012

New! Receive e-mail when new posts are made.
Tracked by 10 customers

Search Customer Discussions